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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilsonb View Post

    But not sure where Bush is at bad here..
    The relevance is Haggard consulted with Bush on policies that would 'energize' the religious Right. Rove's policy for mobilizing the base with tyranny of the majority issues like banning gay marriage state initiatives.

    So it's not that Bush is bad, (unless you consider abusing a minority to obtain political power something bad) it's that Haggard was so self loathing and in denial that he would embrace these policies.
  2. #22  
    I have been deeply suspitious about far-right evangelical ministers since Jimmy Swaggard. Or was it Jim Baker? Over and over, its seems that the more passionate someone is about their beliefs, the more they have something to hide from...their's is a soapbox built on shame.

    I'll give the guy credit - he offers straight up that he is "a deceiver and a liar". I wonder if they are serving fries and a soft drink at the drive-up window selling forgiveness?
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    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Yeam and there wasn't a different gay male prostitute given a white house press pass who made hundreds of visits to the white house.
    I am totally lost on the meaning of this post.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    It common knowledge how secretive this white house can be when they are looking to cover thier political backsides. Look at Cheney who is doing all he can to prevent us from documenting how much he consults with energy executives, although its obvious anyway.
    Unfortunately that is politics in America. Every administration has done everything possible to cover their backsides (be it from driving off bridges, breaking and entering to a blue dress) and my guess is every future administation will follow suit.

    But, I still disagree with attempts to embelish the acts that were committed.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Keefer Lucas View Post
    ...clip...

    I'll give the guy credit - he offers straight up that he is "a deceiver and a liar". ...clip...
    Far from straight up!
    He held out as long as he could.
    Just call me Berd.
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio View Post
    But, I still disagree with attempts to embelish the acts that were committed.
    The title of the the thread needs no embelishment.

    Cardio, spiritual advisor does not have to mean Haggard was Bush's minister. It can just as accurately mean that Haggard advised Bush about the use of spiritual or religious agendas as they relate to politics. How to focus opposition to gay marriage, etc. That is what I personally believe was going on in these meetings, and that is what the article leads us to believe too.

    And as far as the acts that were committed, Haggard admits to sexual immorality. I am sorry but having a massage is not sexual immorality. Sexual immorality means having sex. Meth means meth and as far as I know, a gay hooker still is a gay hooker.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I am sorry but having a massage is not sexual immorality. Sexual immorality means having sex. .
    Sure, he admits to having the gay prossie over for a massage- he just neglects to say what got massaged. I suppose having your pulpit stick massaged by the warm entrails of another man constitutes a "massage" in some circles...
  8. #28  
    Why does it always come down to this??? It's always about Bush.

    I don't know anyone who would characterize Haggard as a Bush "spiritual advisor". As I understand it he was an advisor on evangelical matters (i.e. how Bush can best pander to the evangelical crowd).
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Why does it always come down to this??? It's always about Bush.
    I have actually given high praise to Bush on certain issues here before, including immigration reform.

    But with you, maybe I can ask you a similar question: why does it always come down to you defending Bush at all costs? For the sake of acknowledging that you are not a completely political animal but a human being as well, it would be reassuring for me to hear at least something that you have posted which is critical of the Bush administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    I don't know anyone who would characterize Haggard as a Bush "spiritual advisor". As I understand it he was an advisor on evangelical matters (i.e. how Bush can best pander to the evangelical crowd).
    Even though I do not see much of a difference between evangelical and spiritual, I do think evangelical advisor would be an appropriate designation too.
    see we can agree on something.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio View Post
    I am totally lost on the meaning of this post.
    james guckert aka jeff gannon (a gay hooker) was masquerading as a white house repoter asking our press secretary and our president lame questions..
    he took down his website after he was discovered...you know the one showing himself nude and advertising his services for a hour, a night or a weekend. He visited the white house hundreds of times even when there was no press event going on. he was logged in on numerous occasions to the white house and sometimes was never logged back out.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Why does it always come down to this??? It's always about Bush.

    I don't know anyone who would characterize Haggard as a Bush "spiritual advisor". As I understand it he was an advisor on evangelical matters (i.e. how Bush can best pander to the evangelical crowd).
    Um, yea. That's the point. It's not a slam on Bush (again unless you object to using the tyrany of the majority to bash a minority to obtain political power). It's the fact that this man was so closeted that he built such a power base within the religious Right he was willing to be used to bash what is without a doubt his own 'people'.

    It's sad really.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio View Post
    I am totally lost on the meaning of this post.
    Try reading a little recent history.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/3/28/82111/6781

    http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005...lled-jeff.html
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I have actually given high praise to Bush on certain issues here before, including immigration reform.

    But with you, maybe I can ask you a similar question: why does it always come down to you defending Bush at all costs? For the sake of acknowledging that you are not a completely political animal but a human being as well, it would be reassuring for me to hear at least something that you have posted which is critical of the Bush administration.
    And I've actually given much criticism to Bush on this board before. Particularly, and perhaps ironically, with regard to his lackluster support of any sort of border protection and his cowtowing to Fox. Furthermore, as a conservative and a Christian myself, I've criticized Bush on his pandering to the religious right vote.

    Even though I do not see much of a difference between evangelical and spiritual, I do think evangelical advisor would be an appropriate designation too.
    see we can agree on something.
    Well, just to clarify, I mean an advisor on matters concerning the evangelical community. The term "spiritual advisor" implies he's given personal spiritual advice to Bush.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    Um, yea. That's the point. It's not a slam on Bush (again unless you object to using the tyrany of the majority to bash a minority to obtain political power). It's the fact that this man was so closeted that he built such a power base within the religious Right he was willing to be used to bash what is without a doubt his own 'people'.

    It's sad really.
    Shouldn't he get to decide who "his own people" are?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    Shouldn't he get to decide who "his own people" are?
    Apparently, this situation proves the point that it's not a "decision".
  16. #36  
    Holy crap. Saw the clip from the Jesus Camp movie and Ted is clutching a Treo. Too funny.
  17.    #37  
    Just a follow up: fellow conservative evangelical James Dobson pledged to help rehabilitate Haggard from his gay ways.
    http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1326205&secid=1
    but after the elections lost interest
    http://www.krdotv.com/story.cfm?nav=news&storyID=1353

    You may recall that Dobsen was the person who called Mark Foley's behavior,"sort of a joke by the boy and some of the other pages".
    http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_4586607
  18.    #38  
    bump - new developments

    After three months of "rehab", Haggard is now "completely heterosexual" but his church is still running him out of town.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/06/haggard.ap/index.html
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    bump - new developments

    After three months of "rehab", Haggard is now "completely heterosexual" but his church is still running him out of town.

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/02/06/haggard.ap/index.html
    This sad story doesn't need to be worsened by people coming forward and making silly blanket statements like "competely heterosexual" or "cured". He's out of the leadership role and that's good. If people want to turn this into a Christian propaganda message it should be that he's human like the rest of us, he struggles like the rest of us, and he needs God's Grace like the rest of us.
  20.    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    This sad story doesn't need to be worsened by people coming forward and making silly blanket statements like "competely heterosexual" or "cured". He's out of the leadership role and that's good. If people want to turn this into a Christian propaganda message it should be that he's human like the rest of us, he struggles like the rest of us, and he needs God's Grace like the rest of us.
    yes I agree, if according to his church "he is cured" then why are they still running him out of town?

    Like Keefer said earlier, where is the forgiveness? - well I don't see any in this story.
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