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  1. #21  
    That's it? Well, people believe what they perceive they should believe (me included).
  2. #22  
    Uh? I perceive you have no basis for an argument so to further propagate your uninformed viewpoints you say **** like "people believe what they perceive". Let me guess....you think his scars from his wounds were made by "liberal" Hollywood makeup artist?

    I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that you have never been in the military?

    I think I'll "cut and run" now from this thread.
  3. vw2002's Avatar
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       #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I served an enlistment for three years of active dury in an army infantry division, and I can tell you, the men and women in the field in Iraq may be sacrificing at least temporarily getting the academic credentials of those staying behind but they have my respect thats for sure. A hell of a lot more respect than I have for warmongers whose sole contribution to this war consists of putting a yellow ribbon on their suv. Like you say, chickenhawks.

    It seems that there are some people in this country who have no real intention of serving, or having their children serve, but are quite content to have others do it for them, like they have the gardener trim their hedge. Back in WWII, we all tightened our belts and chipped in with sacrifices. In todays war, it is not at all like that.

    Kerry may be a dufus in many ways, especially in trying to articulate clear thoughts, but he bravely served. Regardless of what anyone feels his intentions were, he risked his life for our country, and I respect him for that. People like Bush and Cheney, on the other hand, completely avoided putting their lives on the line for our country, but seem real eager to have others do it for them.

    When you send people to war, it better be a damn good reason. I really hope that this whole war is not just some ill thought out attempt to create a client state in the middle east to sell us cheap non-OPEC oil. Because that is not what we were all led to believe, and the sacrifice that our brave men and women are making at least deserves an honest reason. From WMD to terrorist links, to the Iraq war reducing instead of increasing terrorism, I do not trust what the Bush administration is telling us about its motivation for the war.


    I understand about bush, cheney and rumsfield, but age and or medical conditions, not a lack of willingness to sacrifice, may sometimes prevent the rest of us civilian " chickenhawks " from serving, cell and hd.

    I would have less of a problem with "D" officials or talking heads if they could somehow rise above their apparent need to slight or namecall through little insinuations.

    I understand the concerns about the bush administration and our ultimate role in iraq, but class, not a sanctimonious attitude, is going to win the next election, and hopefully no one will have to learn that lesson the hard way again.
  4. #24  
    I thought the point of this thread was Kerry's comment.

    Anyway, Kerry clearly meant it as a dig to Bush and the Iraq war. But it's only clear because that's what ALL of Kerry's stump speeches focus on. On the other hand, it's not unreasonable to interpret it as meaning that if you don't study your only option in life may be military service. In fact, on the face of it, that may be the simplest interpretation. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard it.

    Kerry should just apologize and stop trying to be clever.
  5. #25  
    By the way, didn't Bush get better grades than Kerry?
  6. #26  
    I am not a big fan of John Kerry and I don't really care about what grades he got (or that Bush's daddy may have bought him) in college. I voted for Kerry because there really was no other choice. One is a muppet the other is boring to listen to....but at least when Kerry talks I know its him talking....clearly no speech writers are involved in his disertations.

    This thread is about what Kerry said and I believe I made my point already that it is being blown way out of proportion from those that never served at all.

    Class? That comment has to be the funniest in this thread. You think the GOP shows class? Wow....what bubble do you live in? Oh wait...I'll bet its 24/7 Fox News with their "Fair & Balanced" reporting....or should we just call it what it really is? Right Winged propaganda machine for the GOP.
  7. #27  
    "On the other hand, it's not unreasonable to interpret it as meaning that if you don't study your only option in life may be military service. In fact, on the face of it, that may be the simplest interpretation. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard it."

    And is that somehow untrue? Did you serve? Are you saying that the bulk of enlisted folks dying over there are all college graduates?

    It may have been a callous comment. It may have been one that, had he said it correctly, meant that "Bush is sending the poor and uneducated to Iraq to die for Halliburton while his daughter's are living it up at an Ivy league college". But what he said, as tersely worded as it was, is absolutely factually correct in that those without a college degree have fewer options in today's global economy...one of those options just happens to be the military.
  8. #28  
    vw2002: D's don't have a copyright on asinine insulting remarks. R's (and even the pres) saying that the "D's are for the terrorists" is very offensive to many.
    Its politics and election season. Both D's and R's will make such statements to inflame their base.

    I'm just sorry that this tactics work.
    --
    Aloke
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad View Post
    vw2002: D's don't have a copyright on asinine insulting remarks. R's (and even the pres) saying that the "D's are for the terrorists" is very offensive to many.
    Its politics and election season. Both D's and R's will make such statements to inflame their base.

    I'm just sorry that this tactics work.
    Agreed 100%!

    That is why I had to laugh when I read that Dem's somehow have less "class" then Republicans. Funny stuff.
  10. #30  
    "I understand about bush, cheney and rumsfield, but age and or medical conditions, not a lack of willingness to sacrifice, may sometimes prevent the rest of us civilian " chickenhawks " from serving, cell and hd."

    The implication here is that you are being called a "chickenhawk" or that any civilian that hasn't served or was unable to serve is a "chickenhawk". This is not at all what I said. I have no issue with those that haven't served at all. I don't even have a major issue for those that supported the war or maybe still think we need to stay there. I do take major issue with those that make policy who haven't served but clearly fixed the evidence around the policy and are all gung-ho and pro-war late in their life when they DODGED active duty when they had the opportunity to serve when they were younger.

    So being unable to serve doesn't make you a chicken because you never had the opportunity to serve or run away from that opportunity. Being a hawk doesn't make you a chickenhawk either.....but if you still back a half trillion dollar war, endless deficits, and countless lives and maimed civilians caused by grossly negligent - probably criminal - policy makers then you are just wrong. But you're not a chickenhawk. Feel better?
  11. vw2002's Avatar
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       #31  
    "Class? That comment has to be the funniest in this thread. You think the GOP shows class? Wow....what bubble do you live in? Oh wait...I'll bet its 24/7 Fox News with their "Fair & Balanced" reporting....or should we just call it what it really is? Right Winged propaganda machine for the GOP.[/QUOTE]

    hdtv4me


    Hd, Read over what I said again. My comment about class went for BOTH sides, and if you looked carefully enough over the rest of my posts you`ll see that Im expressing it that way. Didnt I mention earlier about having qualified candidates on both sides for a change?
    Last edited by vw2002; 11/01/2006 at 07:52 AM.
  12. #32  
    I did not see the earlier posts - sorry if I took your comments out of context.
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix View Post
    I served an enlistment for three years of active dury in an army infantry division, and I can tell you, the men and women in the field in Iraq may be sacrificing at least temporarily getting the academic credentials of those staying behind but they have my respect thats for sure. A hell of a lot more respect than I have for warmongers whose sole contribution to this war consists of putting a yellow ribbon on their suv. Like you say, chickenhawks.

    It seems that there are some people in this country who have no real intention of serving, or having their children serve, but are quite content to have others do it for them, like they have the gardener trim their hedge. Back in WWII, we all tightened our belts and chipped in with sacrifices. In todays war, it is not at all like that.

    Kerry may be a dufus in many ways, especially in trying to articulate clear thoughts, but he bravely served. Regardless of what anyone feels his intentions were, he risked his life for our country, and I respect him for that. People like Bush and Cheney, on the other hand, completely avoided putting their lives on the line for our country, but seem real eager to have others do it for them.

    When you send people to war, it better be a damn good reason. I really hope that this whole war is not just some ill thought out attempt to create a client state in the middle east to sell us cheap non-OPEC oil. Because that is not what we were all led to believe, and the sacrifice that our brave men and women are making at least deserves an honest reason. From WMD to terrorist links, to the Iraq war reducing instead of increasing terrorism, I do not trust what the Bush administration is telling us about its motivation for the war.

    I think everybody should serve, but thats my opinion. I also feel like just because he did serve his country does not give him the right to be free from criticism for his own remarks. I dont like Kerry, I never did, his comments from yesterday are stupid, but Im not sure what he said, is what he really meant.

    We definately lack any great leadership right now in our country. Just looking over the candidates in my local city elections makes me really sad.
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       #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps View Post
    I think everybody should serve, but thats my opinion. I also feel like just because he did serve his country does not give him the right to be free from criticism for his own remarks. I dont like Kerry, I never did, his comments from yesterday are stupid, but Im not sure what he said, is what he really meant.

    We definately lack any great leadership right now in our country. Just looking over the candidates in my local city elections makes me really sad.
    Its so true.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs View Post
    I thought the point of this thread was Kerry's comment.

    Anyway, Kerry clearly meant it as a dig to Bush and the Iraq war. But it's only clear because that's what ALL of Kerry's stump speeches focus on. On the other hand, it's not unreasonable to interpret it as meaning that if you don't study your only option in life may be military service. In fact, on the face of it, that may be the simplest interpretation. That was the first thing I thought of when I heard it.

    Kerry should just apologize and stop trying to be clever.
    I could not disagree more. Consider the context. He is talking to a group of Students. THEY are the ones who might be called to duty. They are at risk. If he was talking to business leaders, I'd say it's more possible that he was referring to bush.

    But when he says to kids of military age - "YOU" end up in Iraq, he means the audience - the soldiers. (After all, there is a huge issue now with the military recruiting on school campuses. He knows this). I think its total BS for him to backtrack and cover up now.

    These speaches are carefully worded. He knew what he was trying to say - well in advance.

    Consider the audience and the context. We all know what he meant to say. We just can't believe it!

    Just my opinion.

    MM
  16. #36  
    The whole thing was suposedly a joke Kerry screwed up which was supposed to end in "just ask Bush." I am not saying Kerry is not without a ton of faults but I would optimistically assume that he got to where he is knowing that the words he chose to use in a public forum would be magnified ten times over. THis would lead me to believe he is not totally stupid to the point that he would purposely take a dig at the troops which i think almost all of us would belive would be a bad political move in any arena in America so I don't think he meant it in that light.
  17. #37  
    He didn't take a dig at the troops themselves....that is just so friggin absurd it is laughable. He WAS a troop! He screwed up a joke and he should apologize if he insulted the troops to make it clear they were not the target.

    If people actually change their vote from Dem to Republican because of this bafoon trying to play comedian and messing up his line then I need to move to Canada because there is simply no hope for this country.
  18. cardio's Avatar
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    #38  
    Please stop making excuses for Kerry. Look at his past remarks about the military, he calls them ****** and murderers. I think he meant what he said, he just did not mean to say it. We all know he does not support the men and women on the ground that are protecting his freedom to say what he wants. Yes, he served in the military, I know individuals that served with him, they are disgusted with him and his comments as are most of the members of the military. Even if you believe he just screwed up a joke, it was in a written speech is he so dumb he can not read the speech or remember what it said. One more reason I am happy he did not get elected. If he runs in 08 the dems will lose again because of this type crap. I agree the choices for political leaders have been lacking for the past 20 years.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
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    #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by hdtv4me View Post
    He didn't take a dig at the troops themselves....that is just so friggin absurd it is laughable. He WAS a troop! He screwed up a joke and he should apologize if he insulted the troops to make it clear they were not the target.

    If people actually change their vote from Dem to Republican because of this bafoon trying to play comedian and messing up his line then I need to move to Canada because there is simply no hope for this country.
    Again, just because he was a troop, doesnt give him the right not to face criticism because of his comments. Also, other ex-war veterans do take offense, like McCain.


    Canada politics ain't much better.
  20. cardio's Avatar
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by hdtv4me View Post
    He didn't take a dig at the troops themselves....that is just so friggin absurd it is laughable. He WAS a troop! He screwed up a joke and he should apologize if he insulted the troops to make it clear they were not the target.

    If people actually change their vote from Dem to Republican because of this bafoon trying to play comedian and messing up his line then I need to move to Canada because there is simply no hope for this country.
    The problem with the system is too many vote Dem or Repub just because it says Dem or Repub. Most are too lazy or uninformed to actually see what the candidate actually stands for except for the hot button issue of the day and what their stance is that day depending on which way the wind is blowing (I voted for the war before I voted against the war). If you simply vote party line you might as well move to Canada.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
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