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  1. NRG
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       #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    I'll point you to the posts I made in the other thread you started on the same subject.

    Perhaps we should ask the mods to merge the two threads.
    I agree. I like title and subject of this, but it has gotten way off track from the original intent of pointing out Disney's hypocrisy.
  2. #42  
    The only thing I really see in this thread is political lines drawn in the sand trying to throw rocks over the wall at the other side and not even acknowledging how many are bouncing back hitting themselves in the head.

    There is a HUGE amount of accountability with both Clinton and W. To not acknowledge that, IMHO, is simply playing politics while ignoring or cherry picking history or quotes from reports.
  3. NRG
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       #43  
    So, back on topic. This is from AmericaBlog.com, which has recieved a copy of the movie somehow.

    Source: AmericaBlog

    Defamatory Sandy Berger scene in 9/11 show is THE culmination of the entire first half, it is IMPOSSIBLE to edit it out
    by John in DC - 9/09/2006 04:33:00 PM

    Okay, I just watched the Sandy Berger scene. It is beyond defamatory. The reports you've read do not do it justice.

    We are 1 hour 54 minutes into the film, it is the culmination of the entire first two hours of the film. CIA agents on the ground with Commander Massoud have found bin Laden. They have him pin-pointed in a house. They are looking at the house with binoculars. They are on the phone with the CIA, that has patched in Clinton National Security Adviser Sandy Berger. Berger, like a bumbling ***, sits there, looking every which way, refusing to give them clearance to grab bin Laden who is in their literal grasp. The woman at the CIA has to lecture Berger about how intelligence works, like he's some kind of moron. Berger literally looks like a deer caught in the headlights. He's clueless, an *****, a moron, unfit to serve in any public office - hell, I wouldn't hire the guy to mow my lawn. After a very long pause, the agents are begging Berger to take some responsibility, stop being such a wuss, stop trying to cover his chicken-**** ***, you see Berger reach forward and the phone line goes dead. Clearly Berger has ended the call. Osama gets away. And Sandy Berger is personally responsible for killing 3,000 Americans and bringing down the World Trade Center twin towers.

    Not only is this scene FAR MORE defamatory than any review I've seen to date, this is THE KEY SCENE of the entire first half of the movie. You can't cut it, or a good portion of the movie just makes no sense. But Disney/ABC can't leave the scene is because it simply did not happen. CIA agents weren't on the ground, they weren't with Massoud, nobody had bin Laden in their grasp, and Berger never refused to give the order to get the guy.

    The entire culmination of the first half of the show is one big fat lie. This isn't just a small scene with a small error. It's THE scene and it NEVER HAPPENED AT ALL.
  4. vw2002's Avatar
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    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG View Post
    I you feel that way, then you should feel the same way about Bush. If not, then you are being very biased w/ this statement.
    nrg, you and all the other leftwingers here incessantly post threads criticizing the republican administration, as if your party has all the answers to all issues. obviously, we know that is NOT the case.

    SIR, if you are SO righteously unbiased, why is it that we never see you posting threads which also point out fallacies and hypocrisies within the democratic party as well, so as to be fair? why is that? you`re so concerned with critiquing the right wing, but do you critique your own party with the same fervor? my guess is no.

    the fact remains, to which we can all clearly attest, that neither party is perfect, and the democrats have just as much to answer for as the republicans do regarding 9/11, yet you folks seem to focus centrally on the republicans. hmm..
    you are as biased as anyone else on this forum, and to say otherwise is, on YOUR part, BS on a colossal scale.
    Last edited by vw2002; 09/10/2006 at 02:07 PM.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002 View Post
    nrg, you and all the other leftwingers here incessantly post threads criticizing the republican administration, as if your party has all the answers to all issues. obviously, we know that is NOT the case.

    SIR, if you are SO righteously unbiased, why is it that we never see you posting threads which also point out fallacies and hypocrisies within the democratic party equally? why is that?

    the fact remains, to which we can all clearly attest, that neither party is perfect, and the democrats have just as much to answer for as the republicans do regarding 9/11, yet you folks seem to focus centrally on the republicans. hmm..

    you are as biased as anyone else on this forum, and to say otherwise is, on YOUR part, BS on a colossal scale.

    The simple FACT is this movie completely manufactures things that DID NOT OCCUR about one of the most important events in our Nations history for the purpose of right wing propaganda.

    That is sad and wrong. But because it served to support your 'side' you accept that wrong. Please reflect on why you accept this quietly to yourself.
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    #46  
    dat, have you actually seen the movie yet, or are you just making accusations based on what you have heard?
  7. vw2002's Avatar
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    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The simple FACT is this movie completely manufactures things that DID NOT OCCUR about one of the most important events in our Nations history for the purpose of right wing propaganda.

    That is sad and wrong. But because it served to support your 'side' you accept that wrong. Please reflect on why you accept this quietly to yourself.
    please reflect on why it is that YOU choose to attack only the republican side without equally tendering that critical eye to YOUR party as well, regarding issues such as terrorism and 9/11, or ANY OTHER ISSUE for that matter.

    if you dont, THAT is sad and wrong.
    Last edited by vw2002; 09/10/2006 at 02:19 PM.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The simple FACT is this movie completely manufactures things that DID NOT OCCUR about one of the most important events in our Nations history for the purpose of right wing propaganda.

    That is sad and wrong. But because it served to support your 'side' you accept that wrong. Please reflect on why you accept this quietly to yourself.
    I haven't seen the movie yet, and it's clear that most of the people criticizing it and signing petitions about it haven't either. I don't declare the facts or "accept" them before I can possibly know what they are.

    If they did make things up, it'd be a shame, since it would detract from the facts laid out by the 9/11 Commission Report. The Report is critical of both the Bush and Clinton Administrations, but its review of Clinton's handling of terrorism and al Qaeda is much more damning.

    I don't have time to engage in an active dialogue on this, but I look forward to watching the drama and seeing how warranted the criticism is.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    The simple FACT is this movie completely manufactures things that DID NOT OCCUR about one of the most important events in our Nations history for the purpose of right wing propaganda.

    That is sad and wrong. But because it served to support your 'side' you accept that wrong. Please reflect on why you accept this quietly to yourself.
    oh da thomas, you were there, were ya?

    sounds perfectly plausible to me from a guy who was caught illegally stuffing highly classified documents in his underwear and socks a scant 2 years ago. maybe THAT was what he was trying to hide.

    Clinton in office 8 years before 9/11
    Bush in office 8 months before 9/11

    and who's responsible??? dENY dENY dENY
  10. NRG
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       #50  
    Disney/ABC adds mock assassination of Bill Clinton to 9/11 flick.

    Hmmmm?
    Source: AmericaBlog

    Disney/ABC adds mock assassination of Bill Clinton to 9/11 flick
    by John in DC - 9/09/2006 11:48:00 PM

    Nice. Now I'm watching a scene where a movie of President Clinton is being projected on a screen, it's footage from some Clinton speech, and a Taliban guy walks up and shoots several times at Clinton's head, you see a good 5 or 6 or more bullets make holes in the screen in the middle of Clinton's head, just like he's assassinating Clinton.

    Yes, we now have Disney/ABC throwing in mock assassinations of Bill Clinton. Did the Taliban really stage such a mock assassination of Clinton with bin Laden watching, and somehow we got a blow-by-blow of the entire scene? Or did Disney/ABC decide to throw in a mock assassination of Clinton just for the fun of it? You decide.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by vw2002 View Post
    please reflect on why it is that YOU choose to attack only the republican side without equally tendering that critical eye to YOUR party as well, regarding issues such as terrorism and 9/11, or ANY OTHER ISSUE for that matter.

    if you dont, THAT is sad and wrong.
    So the republican side is completely fictionalized scenes regarding one of the most important events in our nation for the sole purpose of propaganda?

    It saddens me that I remember how unified our country was after 9-11 and what this administration did with that unity. How the entire planet felt our pain and supported our actions in Afghanistan.

    Now look where we're at. Look at the state of Afghanistan. Look at our standing in the World view.

    It's a shame. It really is. From one of our darkest times we were on the road to take the lead in the world, and because of a small cabal of what can only best be described as facists we are at one of our lowest points on the world stage.

    fas‧cism  /ˈfæʃɪzəm/
    1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
  12. NRG
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       #52  
    Last edited by NRG; 09/10/2006 at 07:56 PM.
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    So the republican side is completely fictionalized scenes regarding one of the most important events in our nation for the sole purpose of propaganda?

    It saddens me that I remember how unified our country was after 9-11 and what this administration did with that unity. How the entire planet felt our pain and supported our actions in Afghanistan.

    Now look where we're at. Look at the state of Afghanistan. Look at our standing in the World view.

    It's a shame. It really is. From one of our darkest times we were on the road to take the lead in the world, and because of a small cabal of what can only best be described as facists we are at one of our lowest points on the world stage.

    fas‧cism  /ˈfæʃɪzəm/
    1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

    you continually use the term fascist as you criticize this administration.... again, i invite you to consider how that very term applies to YOUR party just the same, dat.

    so, to address your fascist comments....

    http://www.socialistworker.org/2003-..._Fascism.shtml

    THE WORD "fascism" is used broadly on the left as a term of abuse. Sometimes it is used to refer to any repressive government, whatever its political form. Most commonly on the left in the U.S., it is used to describe any Republican government--in particular, any Republican government or candidate on the eve of a presidential election

    In power, as we know, fascism ruthlessly crushed even the most limited forms of parliamentary democracy. Clearly, this is not the character of the conservative state under which we current live. Moreover, if we were to accept the wrong definition of fascism (repression), then we would be forced into the position of saying that the Democrats are also "fascist."

    Even the "freest" electoral system in the world keeps in reserve special laws designed to nullify various democratic rights in the name of "national security" or "emergency." In the U.S. historically there has been a great deal of legal and also violent repression against working-class struggle and other social movements, regardless of the party in power.

    Democratic president Woodrow Wilson pushed through the Espionage Act during the First World War that sent more than 1,000 people to jail for speaking out against the war. After the war, Wilson rounded up and deported 6,000 foreign-born radicals.

    Franklin Delano Roosevelt, considered the archetypal Democrat, forced 120,000 people of Japanese descent into concentration camps. Under his presidency, troops were used 43 time to quell labor disputes.

    In 1948, Democrat Harry Truman--the man who began the Cold War witch-hunts--ordered the army in to seize control of the railroads to stop a railroad workers’ strike. In the 1960s, the FBI’s secret COINTELPRO operation against activists was begun and thrived under Democratic administrations. Clinton’s Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act paved the way for the even more repressive laws being pushed these days.

    If we lived in a fascist state, it would be impossible to even publish this newspaper, let alone print this article. To cry "fascism" every time a Republican is in the White House is to drastically underestimate what fascism really is. Secondly, it feeds illusions in the idea that the Democrats are somehow less likely to resort to police measures to attack working-class and political movements.

    You can’t have it both ways. Either fascism is a police dictatorship resting on the middle class and backed by big business (the meaningful definition), or it is simply a word for repression. Calling the Bush administration "fascist," without also calling equally repressive Democratic administrations "fascist" is simply a way of scaring progressives into voting the lesser evil.

    a bit hypocritical to use the term on republicans when its might just as easily directed back at you and your own party, no?
    Last edited by vw2002; 09/10/2006 at 09:38 PM.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    So the republican side is completely fictionalized scenes regarding one of the most important events in our nation for the sole purpose of propaganda?

    It saddens me that I remember how unified our country was after 9-11 and what this administration did with that unity. How the entire planet felt our pain and supported our actions in Afghanistan.

    Now look where we're at. Look at the state of Afghanistan. Look at our standing in the World view.

    It's a shame. It really is. From one of our darkest times we were on the road to take the lead in the world, and because of a small cabal of what can only best be described as facists we are at one of our lowest points on the world stage.

    fas‧cism  /ˈfæʃɪzəm/
    1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.
    and I suppose the Dems (who allowed this to foster in the first place) would have us all safe and cozy from terrorists now.....I think not.
  15. #55  
    While my biggest issue right now is the fact that the colon on my "K" key has been replaced with a semi-colon on my WX, I felt the need to respond. After watching the first evening of this show, I do feel it is indeed a travesty. Not once did I see Sandy Berger depicted wearing pants big enough to hold top secret documets (that's what pleats are for). As for trying to prove your point by linking to the DailyKos, that's about as effective as me providing a link to Ann Coulter's website. This show is a fictionalized account, similar to Farenheit 911. FOR ME, the nitty gritty comes down to this... who best NOW will protect that little lady in my avatar. And if Harry Reid just happens to frequent TreoCentral, Harry, if your going to brag about killing something, let it be terrorists, not the Patriot Act.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    This show is a fictionalized account, similar to Farenheit 911.
    No. Farenheit was an obvious opinion piece and did not pretend to be anything else. The facist propaganda aired tonight on ABC pretends to be based on and represent FACTS.

    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    FOR ME, the nitty gritty comes down to this... who best NOW will protect that little lady in my avatar.
    I hope it's you.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas View Post
    No. Fahrenheit was an obvious opinion piece and did not pretend to be anything else. The facist propaganda aired tonight on ABC pretends to be based on and represent FACTS.
    Da....your biased is showing again. I have to take exception to this as your statement trying to not classify Fahrenheit 9/11 as a Documentary to prove a point on the other side of the coin is completely false.

    Fahrenheit 9/11 was the Holy Koran and Bible rolled up into one for many of the Left wing for years after it's release as the source of many claims and accusations.

    It's format is done as a documentary style.

    Directors Guild of America nominates F9/11 as a Documentary.
    Directors Guild of America Announces Its Documentary Filmmaking Nominees
    Directors Guild of America President Michael Apted and Awards Committee Chairperson Howard Storm today announced the DGA's nominees for Outstanding Directorial Achievement in Documentary for 2004. The winners will be announced at the 57th Annual DGA Awards Dinner on Saturday, January 29, 2005...

    ....MICHAEL MOORE - "FAHRENHEIT 9/11" - This is Moore's first nomination.

    Source: http://movies.about.com/od/fahrenhei...adoc011905.htm
    Heck, even Micheal Moore on his own website acknowledges F9/11 could be nominated for an Oscar for Best Documentary for F9/11:
    The only problem with my desire to get this movie in front of as many Americans as possible is that, should it air on TV, I will NOT be eligible to submit "Fahrenheit 9/11" for Academy Award consideration for Best Documentary. Academy rules forbid the airing of a documentary on television within nine months of its theatrical release (fiction films do not have the same restriction).

    Although I have no assurance from our home video distributor that they would allow a one-time television broadcast -- and the chances are they probably won't -- I have decided it is more important to take that risk and hope against hope that I can persuade someone to put it on TV, even if it's the night before the election.

    Therefore, I have decided not to submit "Fahrenheit 9/11" for consideration for the Best Documentary Oscar. If there is even the remotest of chances that I can get this film seen by a few million more Americans before election day, then that is more important to me than winning another documentary Oscar. I have already won a Best Documentary statue. Having a second one would be nice, but not as nice as getting this country back in the hands of the majority.

    SOURCE: Micheal Moore Website
    ......yet to prove a point about a dramatization....a term that traditionally implies fictionalized elements, i.e. fictionalized situations to portray a wider scope or length of time of activities or general results......(which I am not defending in any way as I have not seen it yet, but is Tivo'ed)....F9/11 is now only an opinion piece?
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 09/11/2006 at 09:32 AM.
  18. vw2002's Avatar
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    #58  
    hmm.. I wonder how the fascist-commie democrats swallowed that fact-based documentary last night.
    Wasn't it interesting to see how madeline albright basically gave bin laden an opportunity to escape by warning pakistan of the incoming missile attack which possibly could have saved us all from 9/11?
    isn't it interesting how vocal the commies are about this movie, but yet were so silent about Fahrenheit 9/11?
    Does this show you they are hypocritical? Biased? Full of BS? yep. 100%.
    Last edited by vw2002; 09/11/2006 at 08:49 AM.
  19. NRG
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       #59  
    < < Edit by Septimus > >
    Last edited by NRG; 09/11/2006 at 09:51 AM.
  20. NRG
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       #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    While my biggest issue right now is the fact that the colon on my "K" key has been replaced with a semi-colon on my WX,
    Try typing the semi-colon, then hit 'Alt' key and see if the colon shows up in a list.

    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    I felt the need to respond.
    Glad you could join.

    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    After watching the first evening of this show, I do feel it is indeed a travesty. Not once did I see Sandy Berger depicted wearing pants big enough to hold top secret documets (that's what pleats are for).
    Did we get a chance to see his pants?

    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    As for trying to prove your point by linking to the DailyKos, that's about as effective as me providing a link to Ann Coulter's website.
    I wasn't trying to prove a point, just trying to offer some clips before it aired. That was all.

    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    This show is a fictionalized account,
    That is the whole problem of this movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    similar to Farenheit 911.
    Help me out here and point out to me what part of F911 was fictionalized?

    Quote Originally Posted by dingosatemybaby View Post
    FOR ME, the nitty gritty comes down to this... who best NOW will protect that little lady in my avatar.
    I think living in "Cow Town' you should be alright. But I agree who is going be tough and smart, not just talk tough.
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