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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    But this isn't the only way to go about it. In fact, its probably not the best way. Since your country of origin, your surname, your flying habits and possibly your religion and ethnicity are logged into a computer somewhere then why rely on a minimum wage TSA agent to do the profiling?
    My background should be a factor, as should my behavior at the airport, the shiftiness of my eyes, the quivering of my voice. And such TSA screeners should not be minimum wage, and have a long career path at TSA.

    That may require more taxes or more borrowing :-) Right-wing conservatives OK with that?

    My point was that the the effect of getting pulled out for scrutiny should be measured and "innocent until found guilty" should still be in force. However, we have to bear up with some inconveniences in order to be free.

    As I said, there is no mathematical neat formula on where to draw the line between liberties and security. It all "depends" in the details.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    So then you support profiling!
    Did you read my previous post, I support El Al style aggressive screening. Thats taking everybody serious, much more than the minimun wage security personnel do today. Not just going after muslims, but doing a better job with them and every one else. When people go on an airplane, it is a privilage and they need to understand that there is going to be some inconvenience.

    5 years after 911, the dept of homeland security is still a disorganized mess without a real plan. Look at Katrina, if you want a glimpse as to how they operate under a crisis. This bashing muslims and attacking liberals about profiling is not an excuse for not having had a more organized and efficient security operation in place years ago.

    Lets spend some money and hire some more capable well trained people. Lets not have some type of system that looks tries to look good by just cracking down on one ethnic/religious group, but one that is a safety net that tries to fill all the holes effectively, which it does not do now.

    The whole reason we are having this debate is because it is an open issue with no leadership pointing the way as to what we should do when it comes to airline screenings and security issues like boat cargo. It is rather a reactionary change the rules in response to whatever happened last week type of operation.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Did you read my previous post, I support El Al style aggressive screening. Thats taking everybody serious, much more than the minimun wage security personnel do today. Not just going after muslims, but doing a better job with them and every one else. When people go on an airplane, it is a privilage and they need to understand that there is going to be some inconvenience.

    5 years after 911, the dept of homeland security is still a disorganized mess without a real plan. Look at Katrina, if you want a glimpse as to how they operate under a crisis. This bashing muslims and attacking liberals about profiling is not an excuse for not having had a more organized and efficient security operation in place years ago.

    Lets spend some money and hire some more capable well trained people. Lets not have some type of system that looks tries to look good by just cracking down on one ethnic/religious group, but one that is a safety net that tries to fill all the holes effectively, which it does not do now.

    The whole reason we are having this debate is because it is an open issue with no leadership pointing the way as to what we should do when it comes to airline screenings and security issues like boat cargo. It is rather a reactionary change the rules in response to whatever happened last week type of operation.
    No, I didn't read your earlier post.

    Your El Al "aggressive screening" program is what I call profiling. I suspect others, with the political motivation of stopping it, will too.

    Your criticisms of Homeland Security are on the mark. We're coming up on the five year anniversary and we still don't have control of our borders. Not acceptable.
  4. #64  
    Article in today's NYT on behavior profiling (finally, after all these years, TSA is "experimenting" with this idea).

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/17/wa...ref=washington
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  5. #66  
    If any person, even if she was an white apparently pregnant women who is flying with what appears to be her 3 yr old daughter, is
    "pacing up and down the aisle of the plane muttered incoherently, occasionally saying "Pakistan,"......making too many trips to the bathroom......"She was in a frenzy. "
    then yes!
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 08/17/2006 at 08:04 PM.
  6. #67  
    Maybe a short conversation at the airport by TSA would have picked up on her psychotic mind.

    This is exactly why we cannot depend only on computerized database of people's race, religion etc.

    Should TSA have access to everyone's (mental) health records?

    Behavior-based security, by obervation and a short conversation/interview is essential.

    I thought there was software that could detect when someone was lying by the stress pattern in the voice ...
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  7. #68  
    Bah, the airline industry has always had to deal with manics. It's part of the symptomology to travel spontaneously. When I was in psych we had one guy who was found in the cockpit of an empty plane revving the engines.
  8. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    I thought there was software that could detect when someone was lying by the stress pattern in the voice ...
    they probably do......I do know that they have software that can be installed right now into airports that can be updated with known terrorists face structure biometrics from photos of the terrorists so it can pick out their faces in a crowd at an airport. Even when they have on sunglasses, grew or shaved beard, etc.... at an alarming high rate of accuracy. If I remember right it was shot down about a year or two after 9/11 for violating personal rights of privacy... ...even though it was only looking for known threats.

    There is also a ID cross reference database that can cross reference all travelers against known terrorists, and the known aliases, but this was also shot down...again claiming violations of privacy and civil liberties.
  9. #70  
    Like I said some posts before.. all this technology is great and has to be applied in a balanced, effective manner, with close supervision and oversight by Congress/courts.

    Oversight by someone other than the Executive branch is essential, IMO. That's why I'm not that upset by the courts reviewing the tools used in the "war" on terror.

    The devil is in the details. Overuse will turn us into a police state. I mean, in the extreme case, why not stop people in the streets and subject them to this "filtering"? Should it just be "believe me, we are keeping this guy locked up for a reason we cannot tell anyone" coming form the Administration?

    The oversight can be by courts operating under classified mode of operation. I have not heard of any leaks from the FISA courts.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  10. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    When I was in psych we had one guy who was found in the cockpit of an empty plane revving the engines.
    Darnit, T- I just KNEW you were in a psych ward at one time! Good of you to own up
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