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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Actually, if they don't have the ability to deal with the consequences then they do have the responsibility to say no.
    So your problem with contraception is that it can fail? How is abortion not a way of dealing with the consequences? Its like getting lung cancer from smoking, and then refusing surgery, because you deserve it and should face the consequences of your actions.

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 08/11/2006 at 07:08 PM.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    So your problem with contraception is that it can fail? How is abortion not a way of dealing with the consequences? Its like getting lung cancer from smoking, and then refusing surgery, because you deserve it and should face the consequences of your actions.

    Surur
    To whom is this question directed?
  3. #23  
    You of course. Quite added in to make it clear. Apologies for putting words in your mouth, but you have not exactly laid out your viewpoint either. Best I can gather its extreme pro-life "every sperm is sacred".

    Surur
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    You of course. Quite added in to make it clear. Apologies for putting words in your mouth, but you have not exactly laid out your viewpoint either. Best I can gather its extreme pro-life "every sperm is sacred".

    Surur
    What is "extreme pro-life"?

    EDIT: I'm not trying to act obtuse but terms like "extreme" are vague.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    What is "extreme pro-life"?

    EDIT: I'm not trying to act obtuse but terms like "extreme" are vague.
    Not extreme as in blowing places up, but extreme in taking principles to ridiculous levels, e.g. the catholic church, where sex is for reproduction, not pleasure, and where even barrier contraception is killing children by preventing conception.

    That kind of extreme pro-life view.

    Surur
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Not extreme as in blowing places up, but extreme in taking principles to ridiculous levels, e.g. the catholic church, where sex is for reproduction, not pleasure, and where even barrier contraception is killing children by preventing conception.

    That kind of extreme pro-life view.

    Surur
    Then, no, I'm neither of what you've infered from my posts. In fact, I don't know a single friend, relative, acquaintance who is.
  7. #27  
    it's obvious from this thread all you guys need to get laid.

    3 nuts a day keeps the moralistic rantings at bay...
  8.    #28  
    I was not speaking out against contraception. I am just intrigued (as I often am) by the thought that the desire (need) for sex is such that one would risk a life threatening disease for the brief encounter.

    DaT offers that the pleasure of sex is the result of evolution. By extension, it must be true that merging of chemicals and pregnancy are by that same evolutionary process inerent outcomes of sex. So, to whatever extent there is a desire for pleasure, wouldn't there be the same desire for both pregancy and shared chemical condition?

    Or is it possible that we have simply become slaves to ourselves and an insatiable appetite for leisure and pleasure--even when the very means by which we seek such tends toward our destruction?
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Or is it possible that we have simply become slaves to ourselves and an insatiable appetite for leisure and pleasure--even when the very means by which we seek such tends toward our destruction?
    In that case the Bonobo monkeys are doomed too
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    I was not speaking out against contraception. I am just intrigued (as I often am) by the thought that the desire (need) for sex is such that one would risk a life threatening disease for the brief encounter.
    the urge to drink too much/take drugs etc etc is stong too.. men are weak animals who tend to go for the easy fix..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    By extension, it must be true that merging of chemicals and pregnancy are by that same evolutionary process inerent outcomes of sex. So, to whatever extent there is a desire for pleasure, wouldn't there be the same desire for both pregancy and shared chemical condition?
    I'm not getting this. Could you elaborate?
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I'm not getting this. Could you elaborate?
    Sure.

    Your reply attributed the pleasurableness of sex to the workings of the evolutionary process in making procreation more likely. By logical extension, we would have to say that all aspects of sex are results of the evolutionary process--including the high potential for pregancy; and the sharing of bio-chemicals.

    I could have replaced "bio-chemicals" with STDs, except not all sexual encounters include communication of disease. All encounters do include sharing of bodlily fluids (unless you employ pills, patches, and/or paraphrenalia aimed at preventing the same).
  13. #33  
    Shopharim, you are not making much sense. Surely the sharing of fluids is a prerequisite for any sexual intercourse which would result in pregnancy in any case.

    Surur
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    In that case the Bonobo monkeys are doomed too
    This raises a good point. Monkeys, who share similar urges, don't share similar mental capacity. Because of this, they don't have monkey hospitals to save the lives of sick monkey babies and, as a result, they need to have more offspring to compensate for the unhealthy ones so the species can survive. Nor do they have, or even have the need for, contraception or abortion. As human residents of the First World we have come to believe that we have the luxury to determine if we have sex for recreation and if we have it for reproduction.
  15.    #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Shopharim, you are not making much sense. Surely the sharing of fluids is a prerequisite for any sexual intercourse which would result in pregnancy in any case.

    Surur
    What is it that you don't understand?
  16. #36  
    I'm completely lost actually. Could you just lay out your position in plain language, without beating around the bush.

    Surur
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    ...beating around the bush.

    Pun intended?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I'm completely lost actually. Could you just lay out your position in plain language, without beating around the bush.

    Surur
    Why does the position of the person who asked the question matter?
  19. #39  
    I dont even know what his asking anymore, and I'm tired of guessing wrong.

    Surur
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I dont even know what his asking anymore, and I'm tired of guessing wrong.

    Surur
    I don't mean to speak for Shop, but the original question seemed pretty clear:

    Is there such a thing as free sex when there's always a risk/cost associated with it?
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