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  1. TomUps's Avatar
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    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    That's kinda silly isn't it.

    Stop buying "war" talk. It's standard International policing that's required.
    Why are you so hung up on one word? With everything going on, and the saftey of every American at stake, who really cares if its called a "war", "fight", "skirmish", "police action", or "international policing". Why is this a big deal?
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Why are you so hung up on one word? With everything going on, and the saftey of every American at stake, who really cares if its called a "war", "fight", "skirmish", "police action", or "international policing". Why is this a big deal?
    Because the safety of every American is NOT at stake.

    Because the "we're at war" line is being used to grab power and usurp citizen's rights.

    And because I say so.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    And because I say so.
    LOL great logic in that one
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
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  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Because the safety of every American is NOT at stake.
    Yes they are, only thousands or millions at any one time.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Because the "we're at war" line is being used to grab power and usurp citizen's rights.
    Aren't you the one so against Talking Points?

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    And because I say so.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Yes they are, only thousands or millions at any one time.
    You're kidding right?

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Aren't you the one so against Talking Points?
    How is this a talking point?


    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Darn right!
  6. TomUps's Avatar
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    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Because the safety of every American is NOT at stake.
    Ok, then...Only Americans that use Mass transit, live in large cities, travel overseas, live near nuclear power plants, work in high-rise buildings. I guess you don't care about those Americans. Is it only your family your concerned with? I guess it should have been up to New Yorkers only to go to Afghanistan to fight then.

    In fact then, why did we go after Japan during WW2...Those pesky Hawaiins can take care of themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Because the "we're at war" line is being used to grab power and usurp citizen's rights.
    the use of three words is being used to "unsurp citizens rights"?


    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    And because I say so.
    this statement is telling.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    this statement is telling.
    Yes. Yes it is.
  8. TomUps's Avatar
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    #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yes. Yes it is.
    You got more in common with your hero Rumsfield than you thought.
  9. #129  
    Here are some of the new security measures in place as a result of the foiled plot to blow up 10 planes heading to US destinations this week:


    You will notice that although cell phones, laptops, pdas, and other electronics are forbidden on certain UK/US flights with some airlines now, it is not a US/US rule.........yet.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Because the safety of every American is NOT at stake...............
    They are for those who demand a "zero risk" society or expect to get out of this world alive.

    The marginal risk to the average citizen is less than that involved in crossing or driving on a highway. For this we are prepared to sacrifice the First Amendment, even the Rule of Law.

    I am reminded of those who thought that they could manage their risk by choosing 747s in preference to DC-10s.
    Last edited by whmurray; 08/11/2006 at 05:39 PM.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    The marginal risk to the average citizen is less than that involved in crossing or driving on a highway. For this we are prepared to sacrifice the First Amendment, even the Rule of Law.
    You're assuming that the future will look like the past. This is a "war" because terrorists want to do more than just blow up airplanes. They want to destroy our country.

    For those who truly don't believe that all our lives are at risk, I suggest reading up on biological weapons.
  12. g.711's Avatar
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       #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    That's kinda silly isn't it.

    Stop buying "war" talk. It's standard International policing that's required.
    Is it not true that “standard International policing “ does/has not worked when you have countries which vote for sanctions and then continue sell and supply; is that not so Qui.
    Or countries who vote for U.N. troops and then aren’t willing to send their own troops.
    Has the UN been effective and anything? The arguments for not sending troops has long pasted, which is why there was a vote on the issue in the first place. Now is not the time to say I didn’t Really mean to vote to send troops. Iraq nor GWB started this war oh I mean Terrorist Activities.
    Facts are that 9/11 wasn’t the first attack on the USA it was the failure of “standard International policing”
    So now we have to use a War Time Mentality to fight an unconventional war to defeat these global terrorist armys. Its just like the example of Israel, they gave back land and received kidnapping and bombs.
    Last edited by g.711; 08/11/2006 at 03:52 PM.
  13. TomUps's Avatar
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    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    The marginal risk to the average citizen is less than that involved in crossing or driving on a highway. For this we are prepared to sacrifice the First Amendment, even the Rule of Law.
    Again, I wonder how you would feel if it was your family that was blown out of the sky, I wonder how you would feel if it was your family that was killed in his office building because he/she had the misfortune of working on the 90th floor, I wonder how you would feel if it was your family that was killed taking the train to work.

    < < Edit by Septimus > >

    Hasnt the constitution changed plenty of times over the course of American history? How many amendments were made to adapt it to modern times? People love to throw around quotes from Jefferson and Franklin talking about the loss of our rights. Fortunately for them, they didnt live in the times of weapons that are potential city killers.

    Its unfortunate, that one day removed from a great success by our intelligence agencies, using tools given to them by expanded privlages that people can argue that this is not a success, or a big deal.
  14. #134  
    Well anyway, I guess some people out there are trying to make lemonade out of lemons from this near-tragedy.......

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14305975/
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by g.711
    So now we have to use a War Time Mentality to fight an unconventional war to defeat these global terrorist armys. Its just like the example of Israel, they gave back land and received kidnapping and bombs.
    Are you recommending a ground and air assault (like Israel's on Lebanon) on
    Britain
    Pakistan
    Yemen
    Saudi Arabia
    Indonesia

    Simultaneously? or one at a time?

    Is the latest episode (caught by the Brits) more like "standard International policing" or more like Israel's Lebanese assault?
    Last edited by aprasad; 08/11/2006 at 05:12 PM. Reason: spelling
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  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Again, I wonder how you would feel if it was your family that was blown out of the sky, I wonder how you would feel if it was your family that was killed in his office building because he/she had the misfortune of working on the 90th floor, I wonder how you would feel if it was your family that was killed taking the train to work.
    I like to think that I would feel about the same as if a member of my family was killed by a drunk driver, a far more likely event; neither no more or less angry or personally offended.


    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Maybe you just dont care....
    Perhaps you would like to reconsider that accusation, < < Sent to user for editing by Septimus > >

    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    .......because you dont live in a high risk area.
    I can hardly believe your arrogance. As it happens, I live forty miles from Times Square. I had a loved one and dozens of colleagues in World Financial Center on 9/11. Priior to 1992 they, and I worked on the 97th floor of the WTC. I grew up in the "murder capital of the US." A good portion of my family was displaced by Katrina.

    What I understand is that your hero gutted FEMA to fund TSA.


    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    You have the luxury of sitting back, complaining about loss of unseen rights, and unseen abuses of your rights, and violations of our constitution, without having to worry about your childs or other family members lives. I would think that by now we would worry about the lives of all Americans, not just the ones in a 5 block radius of your own home.

    Hasnt the constitution changed plenty of times over the course of American history? How many amendments were made to adapt it to modern times? People love to throw around quotes from Jefferson and Franklin talking about the loss of our rights. Fortunately for them, they didnt live in the times of weapons that are potential city killers.

    Its unfortunate, that one day removed from a great success by our intelligence agencies, using tools given to them by expanded privlages that people can argue that this is not a success, or a big deal.
    I did not and do not so argue. What I did and do argue is that life is not only dangerous but terminal. What I do argue is that thousands of terrrorists do not make it sufficiently more so that I am going to lose a lot of sleep over it. What I did and do argue is that I am not going to cooperate with the terrorists by sacrificing our rights to their whim.

    If I have a luxury, it is that I have seen the world go around a few more times than most. It gives one the perspective that none of us gets out of this world alive but each of us leaves an indelible mark. I do not want mine to be a brown stain.
    Last edited by whmurray; 08/11/2006 at 06:21 PM.
  17. TomUps's Avatar
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    #137  
    < < Edit by Septimus: no longer relevant > >
  18. g.711's Avatar
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       #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Are you recommending a ground and air assault (like Israel's on Lebanon) on Britain Pakistan Yemen Saudi Arabia Indonesia Simultaneously? or one at a time?
    Is the latest episode (caught by the Brits) more like "standard International policing" or more like Israel's Lebanese assault?

    Of course not!. But if Mexico, Cuba or Canada kidnapped some state Troopers and then started sending missiles into our cities. Then I say let get’em

    To tell the truth I don’t have answer. But I am frustrated and I feel like I did when the Marine barracks was bombed in Beirut. You see each of us have a point where life slaps them in the face with the reality of how blessed you are. As a parallel:
    In Beirut the Marines were ordered not have bullets in their weapons for fear that a civilian may be shot. Now we want to limit our intelligence agencies from listening to international phone conversations. This is my point
  19. #139  
    My response is simple: Use the Army/Navy/AirForce/Marines when fighting countries.
    Use CIA/FBI/Interpol/Police when fighting terrorists.

    By the way, the latest British plot was unearthed by a tip from a moslim in the UK. After that, it was pure policework.
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  20. #140  
    Holy crap!

    Fox News is HAMMERING this incident and making a reference to the Lieberman/Lamont race repeatedly! Does claiming the mainstream press is liberal justify this kind of blatent punditry?

    Disallowing liquids on a plane is moronic, knee-jerk, scare the people B$. Someone could shove C4 up their *** if they really wanted.
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