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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I fear all of you reeligious peeps.
    Statements like that show what the "da" in your name stands for.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    No, that is your implication of an alleged implication. You guys have to seriously get over the fox news thing.
    my implication of an alleged implication?

    Knee-jerk talking points attacks followed by semantical tail dragging to cover your tracks is not the rational discussion I had hoped for.

    Maybe this is impossible given the current emotions on the terrorism issue and the current news today and if so, I understand.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 08/10/2006 at 12:58 PM.
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    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    my implication of an alleged implication?

    Knee jerk talking points attacks followed by semantical tail dragging to cover your tracks is not my idea of a rational discussion.
    The talking points thing is so lame.....Im not tail dragging at all. Read your original statemt, then ready my response. You made accusations over things I did not say. Try again please.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnH59
    Statements like that show what the "da" in your name stands for.
    Seems to betray a little inconsistency in his PC beliefs, doesn't it?
  5. #85  
    Pretty funny (not) how the discussion of this topic veered away from a simple fact: humans were apparently attempting to blow up airplanes with lots of people on them.

    Bring your own drum to the band, will ya? We need more excess and irrelevant noise.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Seems to betray a little inconsistency in his PC beliefs, doesn't it?
    Someone's gotta keep an eye on you.
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    #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tastypeppers
    Pretty funny (not) how the discussion of this topic veered away from a simple fact: humans were apparently attempting to blow up airplanes with lots of people on them.

    Bring your own drum to the band, will ya? We need more excess and irrelevant noise.
    Your right.
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Your right.
    Here's the 'Newest Republican' doing his part to spew the talking point:

    "We are at war with a brutal enemy," said Lieberman during a campaign stop Thursday at a Waterbury pizza joint. "How the heck can we be in a battle in which we are fighting as Democrats and Republicans against each other when these terrorists certainly don't distinguish based on party affiliation? They want to kill any and all of us."


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    #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Here's the 'Newest Republican' doing his part to spew the talking point:

    "We are at war with a brutal enemy," said Lieberman during a campaign stop Thursday at a Waterbury pizza joint. "How the heck can we be in a battle in which we are fighting as Democrats and Republicans against each other when these terrorists certainly don't distinguish based on party affiliation? They want to kill any and all of us."
    I agree with everything he said here.
  10. NRG
    NRG is offline
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    #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by kvcobra
    Did you know that in the dictionary under redundant it says, "see 'redundant?'"

    (apologies to Robin Williams)
    Not on my PocketLingo: American Heritage College version.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    The talking points thing is so lame.....Im not tail dragging at all. Read your original statemt, then ready my response. You made accusations over things I did not say. Try again please.
    I did read the posts over again, and I am afraid that I have to come to the same conclusion. I think my posts in 68 and 76 accurately reflect the message you were trying to portray to me and the rest of the forum. Now my argument is lame too, from your last post. If I was incorrect about what you said, I apologize. Also, I guess it does hit a sensitive nerve to be questioning Bush terrorism policy on a day like today, and I understand that.
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    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    I did read the posts over again, and I am afraid that I have to come to the same conclusion. Now my argument is lame too. I guess it does hit a sensitive nerve to be questioning Bush terrorism policy on a day like today, and I understand that.
    This will be the last time I respond to this....here we go .

    1. your argument isnt lame, the constant references to fox news and talking points is lame.


    2. You responded to my quote
    round about way of blaming todays attempted acts of terrorism on America itself. Is it ever the fault of the terrorist, or can they just go about blaming bush for everybody they kill?
    with this....
    every time someone questions Bush policies, we are hurting America and siding with the terrorists, that is your rote response?
    which ofcourse is not what I said. Lets move on.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    This will be the last time I respond to this....here we go .

    1. your argument isnt lame, the constant references to fox news and talking points is lame.

    2. You responded to my quote
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    ..blaming todays attempted acts of terrorism on America itself. Is it ever the fault of the terrorist, or can they just go about blaming bush for everybody they kill?
    with this....
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    every time someone questions Bush policies, we are hurting America and siding with the terrorists
    When I questioned Bush policy and you said I was blaming America instead of terrorists, you were mischaracterizing me. As far as what I said, if you feel I was wrong, then I apologize.

    But I am confused by your reference to Fox. Did I mention fox news even once in this thread?
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 08/10/2006 at 06:27 PM.
  14. #94  
    I am quite sick and disgusted of the extreme racism shown by Muslim extremists. They are biggots. Not only do they hate Americans, Brits, Jews and many anglo countries and ethnicities, they kill and try to kill these people just for the country they live in or the religion they practice. It's a real shame.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Someone's gotta keep an eye on you.
    Are you profiling now?
  16. #96  
    Pakistan a top failed state has found a new export commodity: Terrorism to reach the number 1 position as a failed state.

    A recent report compiled by the US Foreign Policy magazine stated that Pakistan moved from 34th last year to 9th in the current report. I wonder when will US wake up from its self imposed slumber and get a divorce from its marriage of convenience with this radical factory of terror manufacturing maddrrassas otherwise know as Pakistan.

    Some excerpts:

    ABC News Exclusive: Three Alleged Ringleaders ID'd
    August 10, 2006 2:02 PM

    Brian Ross Reports:

    Three of the alleged ringleaders of the foiled airplane bomb plot have been identified by Western intelligence agencies involved in unraveling the plot.

    Two of them are believed to have recently traveled to Pakistan and were later in receipt of money wired to them from Pakistan, reportedly to purchase tickets for the suicide bombers.

    Sources identify the three, who are now in custody, as:

    --Rashid Rauf

    --Mohammed al-Ghandra

    --Ahmed al Khan
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Plotters likely to be of Pak origin: French minister

    Reuters
    Paris, August 10, 2006

    The perpetrators of a foiled attempt to blow up airliners flying from Britain to the United States are likely to be of Pakistani origin, France's Interior Minister said on Thursday
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    A New Hub for Terrorism?
    In Bangladesh, an Islamic Movement With Al-Qaeda Ties Is on the Rise

    By Selig S. Harrison
    Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A15

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...080101118.html

    While the United States dithers, a growing Islamic fundamentalist movement linked to al-Qaeda and Pakistani intelligence agencies is steadily converting the strategically located nation of Bangladesh into a new regional hub for terrorist operations
    -----------------------------------------------------
    Intelligence organisations from Australia to Indonesia and Russia have found similar links: as the scholar Ajai Sahni pointed out in a recent article, "the footprint of almost every act of international terrorism since 9/11 [and before] passes inexorably through Pakistan." High officials in the U.S. and United Kingdom, echoing this perception.
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       #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    mmm to me it came across as somebody abusing a news item to go on their soapbox to spew out their dislike for certain political groups without there being any link at all..
    you'er right, but so am I.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    oh gosh -- Henny Penny, the sky is falling !!!

    there's about to be an election where we are about to be handed our just deserts

    what shall we do, what shall we do ???

    "...oh quick -- get me the poodle's private number, stat !!!"
    Terrorism is so effective. The terrorists win both when they succeed and when they fail.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Then you also believe in the "War on Drugs" etc.

    Terrorism is a tactic.
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    War on terrorism.. terrorism is a tactic. How do you defeat a tactic?
    WARNING: I don't have much doubt this will be long. If you want to get the jest of it, just read the bold or underlined parts so you can skim through it......if not interested just skip it and don't flame for the length.

    POST: I been seeing this claim/statement from several of the left leaning members on this board over the last two weeks. It seems to be the new catch phrase (dare I say talking points?) to ignore or dismiss the urgency of the reality of the War on Terror.

    I agree it is a tactic. That is A definition of the word, but the challenge is that Terrorism is more than a tactic. It is a cause with mission statements, Declarations of War, Organized terror organizations, recruiting programs, hierarchy of leadership, and support of National Governments.

    Among the Islamic Extreme it is commonly claimed to be 3 major sources for their cause.
    • The first cause of eternal importance as a religious war.
    • The Second cause is that Democracy (and any country that supports it) is the evil against the law Islamic Shari'ah law because it moves the power from God and "exchanging it with man-made civil law".
    • The third cause is the existence of Israel and that it must be removed from the map.
    I will use some of OBL's statements and interviews simply and only because he is a lot easier to google but many of the ideas he expresses are commonly shared among many Islamic Extremist groups with varying interpretations and slants to adjust for their own cause.

    If there is ANY doubt that we are involved in a War on Terror, then here is OBL's Declaration of War that does give some insight into the motivations of many Islamic Extremists that is not exclusive to AQ or OBL but insightful to many Islamic Extremist views, claims, and mission statements. It is very long, but interesting in reading the motivations and perspectives. Believe me when I say the quotes below are only a very small portion (this is AQ public Declaration of War, so no worries about copyright):

    FULL DECLARATION Of WAR

    The latest and the greatest of these aggressions, the greatest incurred by the Muslims since the death of the Prophet (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM) is the occupation of the land of the two Holy Places, the foundation of the House of Islam, the place of the revelation, the source of the message and the place of the noble Kaaba, the Qiblah of all Muslims, by the armies of the American Crusaders and their allies. We bemoan this and can only say: "No strength and no power acquired except through Allah".

    --------------------

    We ask Allah to bestow us with victory....... We wish to study the means that we could follow to return the situation to its normal path. And to return to the people their own rights, particularly after the large damages and the great aggression on the life and the religion of the people.

    ---------------------

    (Reason why Saudi is bad for dealing with Americans)

    (1) Suspension of the Islamic Shari'ah law and exchanging it with man-made civil law................

    (2) The inability of the regime to protect the country, and allowing the enemy of the Ummah, the American Crusader forces, to occupy the land for the longest of years.............

    As stated by the people of knowledge, it is not a secret that to use man-made law instead of the Shari'ah and to support the infidels against the Muslims is one of the ten "voiders" that would strip a person from his Islamic status (turn a Muslim into a Mushrik, non-believer status). The All-Mighty said: {And whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are the unbelievers} (Al-Ma'idah; 5:44), and {But no! By your Lord! They do not believe (in reality) until they make you a judge of that which has become a matter of disagreement among them, and then do not find the slightest misgiving in their hearts as to what you have decided and submit with entire submission} (An-Nisa; 4:65).

    ---------------------

    If there is more than one duty to be carried out, then the most important one should receive priority. Clearly after Belief (Imaan) there is no more important duty than pushing the American enemy out of the holy land. No other priority, except Belief, could be considered before it

    ----------------------

    "The ultimate aim of pleasing Allah, raising His word, instituting His religion and obeying His messenger (ALLAH'S BLESSING AND SALUTATIONS ON HIM) is to fight the enemy, in every aspects and in a complete manner; if the danger to the religion from not fighting is greater than that of fighting, then it is a duty to fight them even if the intention of some of the fighters are not pure, e.g., they are fighting for the sake of leadership (personal gain) or they do not observe some of the rules and commandments of Islam.

    --------------------

    The Treaty of Hudaybiyyah was cancelled by the messenger of Allah (Allah's Blessings and Salutations be upon him), once Quraish had assisted Bani Bakr against Khusa'ah, the allies of the prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations be upon him). The Prophet (Allah's Blessings and Salutations be upon him) fought Quraish and conquered Makkah. He (Allah's Blessings and Salutations be upon him) considered the treaty with Bani Qainuqa' void because one of their Jews publicly hurt one Muslim woman, one single woman, at the market. When we compare this to your killing of hundred of thousands of Muslims and occupying their sanctuaries, it is now clear that those who claim that the blood of the American soldiers (the enemy occupying the land of the Muslims) should be protected are merely repeating what is imposed on them by the regime; fearing the aggression and interest in saving themselves. It is a duty now on every tribe in the Arab Peninsula to fight Jihad in the Cause of Allah and to cleanse the land from those occupiers. Allah knows that their blood is permitted (to be spilled) and their wealth is a booty; their wealth is a booty to those who kill them. The most Exalted said, in the verse of As-Sayf, The Sword: {So when the Sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters where ever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in every ambush} (At-Taubah; 9:5).

    --------------------

    These youth know that if one is not to be killed, one will die (anyway), and the most honourable death is to be killed in the Way of Allah. They are even more determined after the martyrdom of the four heroes who bombed the Americans in Riyadh. Those youth raised high the head of the Ummah and humiliated the Americans, the occupier, by their operation in Riyadh.
    Osama bin Laden interview which occurred in May 1998, a little over two months before the U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania:
    Many of the Arabic as well as the Western mass media accuse you of terrorism and of supporting terrorism. What do you have to say to that?

    OBL: .......terrorism can be commendable and it can be reprehensible. Terrifying an innocent person and terrorizing him is objectionable and unjust, also unjustly terrorizing people is not right.................The terrorism we practice is of the commendable kind for it is directed at the tyrants and the aggressors and the enemies of Allah, the tyrants, the traitors who commit acts of treason against their own countries and their own faith and their own prophet and their own nation. Terrorizing those and punishing them are necessary measures to straighten things and to make them right. .......... America heads the list of aggressors against Muslims.............And the United Nations insistence to convict the victims (edit: i.e. Islamic terrorists) and support the aggressors constitutes a serious precedence which shows the extent of injustice.........

    -------------

    Mr. bin Laden, you have issued a fatwah calling on Muslims to kill Americans where they can, when they can. Is that directed at all Americans, just the American military, just the Americans in Saudi Arabia?

    OBL: Allah has ordered us to glorify the truth and to defend Muslim land, especially the Arab peninsula ... against the unbelievers, . ............ Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. ........... the worst terrorists are the Americans...... We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets, ............ The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims.

    ------------------------

    The American people, by and large, do not know the name bin Laden, but they soon likely will. Do you have a message for the American people?

    OBL: I say to them that they have put themselves at the mercy of a disloyal government, and this is most evident in Clinton's administration ... . We believe that this administration represents Israel inside America.....America throws her own sons in the land of the two Holy Mosques for the sake of protecting Jewish interests. ...

    Full Interview (made sure only 3 partial paragraphs quoted.)
    For other Islamic Extremist it is driven by hate against Israel, The West, and the USA. And until all three are driven the way of the dodo, they will not cease....or negotiate....or compromise.....or sign/honor treaties.

    They only seem to dish out violence against the civilians of who they claim is the enemy of their land, their religion, or their race and then claim foul play when they get it in return directed directly at them.

    To illustrate several points I just mentioned, just take a look one of their latest recruiting videos that was just found during a raid in an AQ strong house in Iraq two days ago.....FULL VIDEO SOURCE.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 08/10/2006 at 08:01 PM.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    WARNING: I don't have much doubt this will be long. If you want to get the jest of it, just read the bold or underlined parts so you can skim through it......if not interested just skip it and don't flame for the length.

    POST: I been seeing this claim/statement from several of the left leaning members on this board over the last two weeks. It seems to be the new catch phrase (dare I say talking points?) to ignore or dismiss the urgency of the reality of the War on Terror.

    I agree it is a tactic. That is A definition of the word, but the challenge is that Terrorism is more than a tactic. It is a cause with mission statements, Declarations of War, Organized terror organizations, recruiting programs, hierarchy of leadership, and support of National Governments.

    Among the Islamic Extreme it is commonly claimed to be 3 major sources for their cause.
    • The first cause of eternal importance as a religious war.
    • The Second cause is that Democracy (and any country that supports it) is the evil against the law Islamic Shari'ah law because it moves the power from God and "exchanging it with man-made civil law".
    • The third cause is the existence of Israel and that it must be removed from the map.
    I will use some of OBL's statements and interviews simply and only because he is a lot easier to google but many of the ideas he expresses are commonly shared among many Islamic Extremist groups with varying interpretations and slants to adjust for their own cause.

    If there is ANY doubt that we are involved in a War on Terror, then here is OBL's Declaration of War that does give some insight into the motivations of many Islamic Extremists that is not exclusive to AQ or OBL but insightful to many Islamic Extremist views, claims, and mission statements. It is very long, but interesting in reading the motivations and perspectives. Believe me when I say the quotes below are only a very small portion (this is AQ public Declaration of War, so no worries about copyright):



    Osama bin Laden interview which occurred in May 1998, a little over two months before the U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania:

    For other Islamic Extremist it is driven by hate against Israel, The West, and the USA. And until all three are driven the way of the dodo, they will not cease....or negotiate....or compromise.....or sign/honor treaties.

    They only seem to dish out violence against the civilians of who they claim is the enemy of their land, their religion, or their race and then claim foul play when they get it in return directed directly at them.

    To illustrate several points I just mentioned, just take a look one of their latest recruiting videos that was just found during a raid in an AQ strong house in Iraq two days ago.....FULL VIDEO SOURCE.
    Yes? And your point is? That millions should give up our principles in fear of thousands? That we should become like them to resist them? That is exactly what they would have us do. What is worse, that is what our leadership would have us do.

    The question is not whether or not we are at war but how we are to fight it.

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