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  1. NRG
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    #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Hez attacked Israel on their soil, If Israel went after Syria, would they have world support?
    Can you expand on this a little more for me. I think you may be wrong, again.
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    #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Um, me thinks you are mistaken, again.
    Then you need to open a history book, and look up Hezbollah. Please show me any source that claims Hezbollah was formed because of the plight of the Palestinians. You cannot, becuase the origins of Hezbollah have nothing to do with the Pals. However, one of the few things they have in common with the Palestinians is the support for the destruction of Israel.
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    #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Can you expand on this a little more for me. I think you may be wrong, again.
    Ok, Hezbollah invaded Israel, and kidnapped (or captured as DaT likes to claim), 2 soldiers while killing 8 other soldiers. All of this happened inside Israels borders. Tell me now how I'm wrong. Hezbollah doesn't even dispute this. I guess you were mistaken again.
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    #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    They are all after you Tom, better just drop a nuke on the whole region before they get us! :sarcasm:
    Wonder how your sarcasm would play to the families of over 200 dead marines killed by Hezbollah, the family of the navy diver killed in a Hezbollah hijaking of a twa flight, and the hundreds of family members of dead embassy employees in Beirut.
    Last edited by TomUps; 08/06/2006 at 11:21 AM.
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    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Hobbes, TomUps,

    Even if we agree to your characterization of Hez and other groups, is the current act by Israel/US going to solve the problem in the long run?

    What's your solution to the terrorism problem? Incessant war until every current and potential terrorist (that would be every human of the Islamic faith?) is killed?

    In the famous words of a leading strategist (Rumsfeld), how do we know if we are solving the problem or making it worse?
    Good question, however it seems the question should also be possed to the other side. Does every jew, or american need to be killed? Does Israel need to really be wiped of the map, or is there maybe another solution. I'm all for finding a middle ground.
    Last edited by TomUps; 08/06/2006 at 11:20 AM.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Then you need to open a history book, and look up Hezbollah. Please show me any source that claims Hezbollah was formed because of the plight of the Palestinians. You cannot, becuase the origins of Hezbollah have nothing to do with the Pals. However, one of the few things they have in common with the Palestinians is the support for the destruction of Israel.
    Hezbolla was formed (with Iranian help) in response to the Israeli invaison and occupation of southern Lebanon -- which was a product of Sharon's desire to evict the Palenstinians who had come to be living there.

    The greatest irony of all this was that, initially, the Lebanese Shiites rejoiced at their "liberation" from the unwelcome Sunni Palestinians, who had become arrogant and oppressive in their heavily armed presence.

    Traditionally the Lebanese Shiites (like in most of the islamic world) were poor and powerless.

    In uniting in anger at Israel's 18 year stay to drive them out, the Shiites (through Hezbollah) have become Lebanon's most dominating force.

    I cannot see how this catastrophic war will change that.
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  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Okay....just to make sure we are on the same page. Define what you think my definition of a terrorist is and then define yours.
    For me a terrorist is one who uses innocent civilian deaths to effect a political change.

    Whether it be via bombing buses, trains, landmark buildings, or abortion clinics.

    When attacks are directed at soldiers or politicians, it can become a more complicated answer.

    ..........BTW....welcome back!
    (I was hoping no one had noticed ...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 08/06/2006 at 01:59 PM.
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    #128  
    Hezbolla was formed (with Iranian help) in response to the Israeli invaison and occupation of southern Lebanon -- which was a product of Sharon's desire to evict the Palenstinians who had come to be living there.

    The greatest irony of all this was that, initially, the Lebanese Shiites rejoiced at their "liberation" from the unwelcome Sunni Palestinians, who had become arrogant and oppressive in their heavily armed presence.
    Yep, Hez. was formed in repsonse to the Israeli occupation of Lebanon. It was not formed to take up the palestinian cause and has never really done so.

    In uniting in anger at Israel's 18 year stay to drive them out, the Shiites (through Hezbollah) have become Lebanon's most dominating force.

    I cannot see how this catastrophic war will change that.
    Israel has already left Lebanon. Why did Hezbollah invade Israel now? In fact, what is Hezbollahs goal now, could it be they want to kill every jew on the planet like their leader has said many times?

    For me a terrorist is one who uses innocent civilian deaths to effect a political change.
    What about when civilians are killed during a war? If that was the case, would you have considered the U.S. a terrorist state after WW2?
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    What about when civilians are killed during a war? If that was the case, would you have considered the U.S. a terrorist state after WW2?
    That's exactly the problem.. the definitions look differently from different points of view.

    In my opinion, targeting civilains deliberately in a war is a war-crime. Bombing a residential neighborhood with the intent of killing the civilians living there is a terrorist act. Bombing a military base and killing civilians as a side-effect is not a terrorist act.

    This is valid for any war, at any time. Including carpet bombing of Germany, and the ultimate example .. the 2 nuclear bombs used in the history of mankind. Luckily, the victor writes the rules (and history).
    Last edited by aprasad; 08/06/2006 at 07:08 PM. Reason: spelling
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  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Israel has already left Lebanon. Why did Hezbollah invade Israel now?
    Logic makkes it hard to avoid guessing that the cross border raid was at least semi-coodinated with Hamas -- as well as the Iranians.

    Hezbolla itself had its own particular agenda which was to ramp up armed tension at a time when there was increasing pressure on them to disarm their independent militia.

    Iran and Syria both wanted to gain negotiating chips through their influence over Hezbolla -- and Iran as well wanted to distract from the growing pressure on its nuke program.

    What about when civilians are killed during a war? If that was the case, would you have considered the U.S. a terrorist state after WW2?
    WW2 was fought against 2 oppressive intiators of total war. Both behaved with such naked unapolegetic savagery that anything done in reply was justified.
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  11. #131  
    Barye...I agree with everything in your last post.

    ............just don't tell anyone that I admitted that I agreed with you........you know....I have a rep to maintain and all!
  12. NRG
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    #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Ok, Hezbollah invaded Israel, and kidnapped (or captured as DaT likes to claim), 2 soldiers while killing 8 other soldiers. All of this happened inside Israels borders. Tell me now how I'm wrong. Hezbollah doesn't even dispute this. I guess you were mistaken again.
    I am wondering what area the Israeli soldiers where snatched from?
  13. NRG
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    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Then you need to open a history book, and look up Hezbollah. Please show me any source that claims Hezbollah was formed because of the plight of the Palestinians. You cannot, becuase the origins of Hezbollah have nothing to do with the Pals. However, one of the few things they have in common with the Palestinians is the support for the destruction ouitsf Israel.
    What are Hezbollah's main recruits? Your first statement was it had "nothing to do with Palestinians".
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