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  1. #41  
    Maybe "over there" helps to keep them "sleeping" "over here"
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter
    Maybe "over there" helps to keep them "sleeping" "over here"
    Only if you think they don't believe their own religion.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    What? I am trying to understand/refute the logic that "we fight them over there OR fight them over here".

    Fighting them "over there" is not going to prevent the sleeper cells from happening "over here".

    The ("over there" or "over here") is a false choice.
    They have limited assets, and will expend them in an effort to prevent us from establishing a functioning democracy in Iraq, because such a state means they have lost.
  4. #44  
    Don't think it has anything to do with their beliefs, it's their strategy.
  5. #45  
    Oops, your post above (limited assets) is why I think that way.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by sblanter
    Don't think it has anything to do with their beliefs, it's their strategy.
    What is their strategy based upon? What is their desired endstate?
  7. #47  
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    They have limited assets, and will expend them in an effort to prevent us from establishing a functioning democracy in Iraq, because such a state means they have lost.
    Limited resoures ??

    the 9/11 commission reported that the total cost of the 9/11 operation was less than $500,000 -- with only $270,000 of that spent here in the U.S.

    Do you really think that its a lack of resources that keeps us off the terrorism bullseye ??

    Hizzbollah makes more than that in a day, trading illegally shipped non-taxed cigarettes here in the U.S.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #49  
    It takes more than money to pull something BIG off.

    I'm surprised we haven't had a Beslan incident here.

    Ever wonder how five middle eastern guys working in a store that has no customers stays in business?
  10. #50  
    And from the 9/11 report:

    A Shock, Not a Surprise
    The 9/11 attacks were a shock, but they should not have come as a surprise. Islamist extremists had given plenty of warning that they meant to kill Americans indiscriminately and in large numbers. Although Usama Bin Ladin himself would not emerge as a signal threat until the late 1990s, the threat of Islamist terrorism grew over the decade.
  11. #51  
    hoovs, i don't get it? unless you haven't been paying attention, US generals have come out this week and have said there's civil war... wouldn't you have to agree the media was right in its reporting of this?

    hehe, that reminds me, as Colbert once said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias.."
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster
    hoovs, i don't get it? unless you haven't been paying attention, US generals have come out this week and have said there's civil war... wouldn't you have to agree the media was right in its reporting of this?

    hehe, that reminds me, as Colbert once said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias.."
    You must've been one of the five people on the planet watching the show when he said that.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster
    hoovs, i don't get it? unless you haven't been paying attention, US generals have come out this week and have said there's civil war... wouldn't you have to agree the media was right in its reporting of this?
    Really? I didn't read that. I did read this, though:

    Two top Pentagon commanders said Thursday that spiraling violence in Baghdad could propel Iraq into outright civil war, using a politically loaded term that the Bush administration has long avoided.

    The generals said they believe a full-scale civil war is unlikely. Even so, their comments to Congress cast the war in more somber hues than the administration usually uses, and further dampened lawmakers' hopes that troops would begin returning home in substantial numbers from the widely unpopular war in time for this fall's elections.
    emphasis mine
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    You must've been one of the five people on the planet watching the show when he said that.
    Actually, he said that in front of the president as he was a guest speaker at the annual White House Correspondent's Dinner.
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster
    hoovs, i don't get it? unless you haven't been paying attention, US generals have come out this week and have said there's civil war... wouldn't you have to agree the media was right in its reporting of this?

    hehe, that reminds me, as Colbert once said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias.."
    I have to disagree w/ you on this one GFunk. They stopped short of calling it a civil war, I believe they said "If the violence continues it could lead to civil war", and I think Pace said it was "possible, but not probable". Which still does not change my view that if it is not in a civil war as of yet, it is just around the corner.

    And yet another discouraging event is:


    Source: WaPo

    Iraqi Shiites March in Support of Hezbollah
    Thousands Chant: 'Death to Israel' and 'Death to America

    By Andy Mosher
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Friday, August 4, 2006; 3:34 PM

    BAGHDAD, Aug. 4 -- Thousands of Shiite Muslims marched though the Iraqi capital on Friday in support of Hezbollah guerrillas battling Israeli forces, answering a call by radical cleric Moqtada al-Sadr rally to the cause of their fellow Shiites in Lebanon.

    Throngs of Shiite men, most clad in white burial shrouds that symbolized their willingness to die, gathered in the northeast Baghdad slum known as Sadr City and marched toward the center of the capital, chanting "Death to Israel" and "Death to America." Marchers waved the yellow flag of Hezbollah and the red-and-green flag of Lebanon, while occasionally pausing to desecrate the Israeli flag.

    Though clearly huge, the precise size of the crowd was impossible to determine. Estimates made by organizers ranged from 250,000 to 1 million, but the U.S. military said in a news release that calculations based on pictures taken from unmanned surveillance aircraft put the crowd at 14,000.

    -snip-
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by g-funkster
    Actually, he said that in front of the president as he was a guest speaker at the annual White House Correspondent's Dinner.
    Ah. I wonder if he counted the reality of the impact liberal policies have had in the inner city?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I have to disagree w/ you on this one GFunk. They stopped short of calling it a civil war, I believe they said "If the violence continues it could lead to civil war", and I think Pace said it was "possible, but not probable". Which still does not change my view that if it is not in a civil war as of yet, it is just around the corner.

    And yet another discouraging event is:
    Yes. That was discouraging, but not surprising.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Really? I didn't read that. I did read this, though
    Yes, you're right, I worded it incorrectly. but you're avoiding my question.

    My main point was that the cartoon was blatantly saying that this idea of a civil war was manufactured by the media, and this week we have word from US generals that a civil war is a 'possibility'. Surely, those officials didn't testify because of what they saw and heard on TV.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Yes. That was discouraging, but not surprising.
    True. Especially if you listen to Vali Nasr who has written a book "The Shia Revival: How Conflicts Within Islam Will Shape the Future" on the rise of the Shia.

    He is on the book tour, with some prime stops including

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5567840
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...3ACharlie_Rose
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...iews/nasr.html
    http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/nasr.html

    For people who like to read:
    http://www.foreignaffairs.org/200607...tes-rise.htmll

    For a good laugh:
    He was on the Daily Show as well.
    --
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  20.    #60  
    they said they were moving troops to Baghdad to avoid civil war

    but this is great, 3 and a half years in to this mess, we've gone from

    "the smoking gun could be in the form of a mushroom cloud", to

    "they will greet us as liberators and throw flowers at our feet", to

    "mission accomplished", and now to

    "well the generals did not "technically" say this is a civil war yet",

    with a straight face, all without missing a beat
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