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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    It is the normal state of human affairs.

    I do believe that we can fight them there, or we can fight them here. At last count, we were 0/1 fighting them here.
    "Them"?

    We were 0/1 fighting "them"?

    That's a reference to 9/11?

    So in you're mind we invaded Iraq to fight the pepetrators of 9/11?

    Unless when you said "them" you really meant something else. Hmm.
  2.    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Didnt she see the same intel that rumsfeld and the prez saw?
    I think she saw the same intel the office of the Vice President manufactured over the objections of the CIA, but it really doesn't matter, Hillary Clinton will not take the fall for this.
  3.    #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Is this your opinion, or is it a fact? source please?.....I agree though, Rummy should go (for all I care, he can take Hillary with him).
    The sources include the Deputy Director of the CIA, the United States Terrorism Czar, the head of the CIA Bin Ladeen desk.

    Agreed, as far as I am concerned we can clean house with every last one of them.
  4. #24  
    Don't count on it. They may get the Presidential Medal of Freedom (or whatever Tenet and Bremer got for their stellar performance).
    Last edited by aprasad; 08/04/2006 at 02:13 PM. Reason: spelling
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  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Don't count on it. They may get the Presidential Medel of Freedom (or whatever Tenet and Bremer got for their stellar performance).
    LMAO!!
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    I do believe that we can fight them there, or we can fight them here.
    Who gave us this choice? Why cant they use the anger in the streets to recruit 10 -15 civilians for sleeper cells in the US?

    I have never understood this false choice ..
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    With that being said, I find it very disturbing seeing Hillary up there preaching about military strategies and failed promises. Afterall, she voted for the war. If it was somebody like Feingold, I think it would be alot easier on the stomach for most Americans, since he was against the war from the beginning. Instead, we get another political circus, from a politician more interested in putting on a big show for the cameras than actually trying to find a resolution to the problem.
    Why should she be held accountable for the mismanagement and poor execution of the war and it's aftermath?

    The political appointees at the agencies prepare the briefings (remember the PDB?) that the Congress sees. You think they have access (or time) to see the thousands of pages of raw intelligence? or have access to the working level grunts whose opinions get overridden by the top management?

    Giving the Pres. the authority to go to war was needed to give him all the choices to deal with the situation. The senators did not vote for the blunders and mismanagement of the aftermath.
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Is this your opinion, or is it a fact? source please?.....I agree though, Rummy should go (for all I care, he can take Hillary with him).

    I refer you to Frontline.
  9. #29  
    And a gazillion books that are coming out.

    Oh Wait! I forgot.. That's all biased left wing media and all made up.

    Never mind....
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Why should she be held accountable for the mismanagement and poor execution of the war and it's aftermath?

    The political appointees at the agencies prepare the briefings (remember the PDB?) that the Congress sees. You think they have access (or time) to see the thousands of pages of raw intelligence? or have access to the working level grunts whose opinions get overridden by the top management?

    Giving the Pres. the authority to go to war was needed to give him all the choices to deal with the situation. The senators did not vote for the blunders and mismanagement of the aftermath.
    If we are just talking about the mismanagement of the occupation and the poor execution, then your right. However, I still cringe at watching Hillary give military advice to anyone, or to question Generals on military strategy. I mostly say that because I believe that to her, its more important to make a political statement that would help her career, than it is for her to make a political statement that would help our country. But, I guess you can say that for most politicians now.
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    And a gazillion books that are coming out.

    Oh Wait! I forgot.. That's all biased left wing media and all made up.

    Never mind....
    I so wish our country would move beyond the left and right wing bashing each other all the time.
  12. NRG
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Is this your opinion, or is it a fact? source please?.....I agree though, Rummy should go (for all I care, he can take Hillary with him).
    The president recieves different intel than the Senate or House.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    It is a garden spot compared to Ramadi/Baghdad. It is going to be a long war.
    Not if we wise up and get our asses out of there. On the Bush Lied theme, remember when Bush flew out to the aircraft carrier to tell us all the war was over, reconstruction would only take a year, and Iraq oil revenues would pay for it all.

    It was a mistake to go in, and it's a mistake to stay. Our presence is making things worse, not better. It gives our opponents an enemy to mobilze against, and it let's the terrorists (who didn't exist in Iraq before we destroyed the country's military) a great recruiting tool. By every objective measure, Iraqi's are in worse shape now than they were under Saddam, and the mideast is more dangerous than it was then.

    The neo-Cons who pushed for this war, the White House, and DoD screwed things up so badly Iraq will not be stable for dozens of years, whether we're there or not. We can't prevent the Sunni's and Shiite's from killing each other. We can't prevent it in Mosul, we can't prevent it in Bagdhad, or anywhere else. It's time to come home. If they're going to kill each other anyway, there's no point in letting them kill us, too.

    And just wait: the White House and DoD will reach the same conclusion. Just in time for the '08 elections they'll declare victory and start pulling out U.S. troops. And just like Vietnam, they'll leave things worse than when we got there.
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  14. NRG
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    I so wish our country would move beyond the left and right wing bashing each other all the time.
    Hear hear.
  15.    #35  
    Condoleeza is on MSNBC now saying the war in Iraq is a success, and that soon our troops will be able to come home because the Shea, Sunni, and Curds will begin to solve their problems by having a reasoned debate followed by a nice vote.

    She also called the General's warnings about civil war "problems with sectarian differences".
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Who gave us this choice? Why cant they use the anger in the streets to recruit 10 -15 civilians for sleeper cells in the US?

    I have never understood this false choice ..
    You don't think there are sleeper cells here? Do you remember the World Trade Center bombing in 1993? How long were the 9/11 killers here before they struck?
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    "Them"?

    We were 0/1 fighting "them"?

    That's a reference to 9/11?

    So in you're mind we invaded Iraq to fight the pepetrators of 9/11?

    Unless when you said "them" you really meant something else. Hmm.
    I meant Islamofascists. They seem to hang out a lot in the Middle East. You may note that Iraq is between Syria (a long time state sponsor of terrorism) and Iran (The leading state sponsor of terrorism.)

    Surely you don't think that the 9/11 killers claimed a nationalistic tie?
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    I so wish our country would move beyond the left and right wing bashing each other all the time.
    I want it to move beyond bashing, too.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    You don't think there are sleeper cells here? Do you remember the World Trade Center bombing in 1993? How long were the 9/11 killers here before they struck?
    What? I am trying to understand/refute the logic that "we fight them over there OR fight them over here".

    Fighting them "over there" is not going to prevent the sleeper cells from happening "over here".

    The ("over there" or "over here") is a false choice.
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    What? I am trying to understand/refute the logic that "we fight them over there OR fight them over here".

    Fighting them "over there" is not going to prevent the sleeper cells from happening "over here".

    The ("over there" or "over here") is a false choice.
    Exactly! Well stated.
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