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  1. #41  
    Of course people with experiences similar to Leardvr will say they believe the egg has a spirit. Anytime someone who wholeheartedly believes in God will also argue that God is the creator of life. In that respect your poll is fundamentally flawed. However, it would be reasonable to poll such a demographic which is not particularly religious in nature.


  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCode
    @hoovs

    I know, I'm a horrible person. It's a gift really
    Come on, now, I didn't call you a horrible person.
  3. #43  
    As an added note, I think that religion should be irrelevant in the discussion of the morality of a scientific application. We cannot use religion as support for the immorality column, because it is not scientifically proven. Such an arguement could also lead one to say that babies that are born with defects are born that way because evil aliens in a galaxy far, far away are engaged in an epic struggle for political and social reform and the radiation from their highly developed weaponry somehow had an effect on the child only in the first trimester.


  4. #44  
    @hoovs

    Come on, I know you were thinking it I get it a lot, I'm just not an emotionally motivated person...


  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Yes with respect to egg cells, but not with respect to bunker busters.
    No, I don't consider bunker busters to be human life.

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    And how can you possibly have a discussion about "the dignity of human life" without first having a discussion about whether or not there are any lives present?

    And what possible reason would you have to feel there is a life present apart from God sending down a spirit when the sperm gets to the egg?
    Umm, science? A human embryo is living and is human. I don't think there's any doubt about that.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCode
    @hoovs

    Come on, I know you were thinking it I get it a lot, I'm just not an emotionally motivated person...
    Well, at least you're in touch with your... um... lack of emotion.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCode
    @hoovs

    Come on, I know you were thinking it I get it a lot, I'm just not an emotionally motivated person...
    Nor would I suspect you are a parent. Becoming one changes alot.
  8. #48  
    For those relating MMR to autism, the MMR jab is given at around the same age that autism normally develops. Is it any wonder that parents think the two are related? Doesn't mean there is a relationship, and the only study I've heard of which did relate the two was seriously flawed and has now been withdrawn.

    ***********
    Separate issue

    I don't think there is any justification for abortion, other than for the health of the mother or in rape cases etc. Stephen Hawking would have been aborted by the criteria of 'we don't expect him to have a fulfilling or long life'.
    Animo et Fide
  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Then I would assume you feel choosing the most viable embryo with invitro, or fertility drugs also means deciding "who deservers to live".
    In a sense, yes.
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Clearly in this uncaring universe, no-one "deserves" to live.

    Surur
    Clearly.
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenCode
    @shopharim (sorry can't quote on the Treo)

    I do not require the same number of resources an autistic person does. However, if I were to become ill or have to depend on others to take care of me at this age (being a baby is different, the care is reciprocated when the parents become older), I would gladly remove the burden from society. Think about what Lear said for a second... 100k a year for a moderate to severely autistic person. I certainly don't get that kind of check from the government...
    Understood. But, why is the cost of your existence only a factor if you're sick? Afterall, the resources expended on you could be spent on someone "more deserving" could they not?

    For ther record, I'm not trying to get rid of you. I just want to understand the criteria being used to determine who is expendable.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    A human embryo is living and is human. I don't think there's any doubt about that.
    Of course, no doubt at all, and we are all scientifically proven murderers for allowing the desctruction of all the tiny living humans during in-vitro fertilization and with the use of birth controll pills.

    Again, none of this is going away. Hoovs proclomation of the scientific definition of when life begins does not exist. In-vitro is not going away, stem cell research is not going away, birth control pills are not going away.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    Then I would assume you feel choosing the most viable embryo with invitro, or fertility drugs also means deciding "who deservers to live".
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    In a sense, yes.
    See.

    Usolicited statment from one of our religious board members.

    And how about the spirit living inside the fertilized egg as well? And where did it come from if not sent down by God?
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Of course, no doubt at all, and we are all scientifically proven murderers for allowing the desctruction of all the tiny living humans during in-vitro fertilization and with the use of birth controll pills.

    Again, none of this is going away. Hoovs proclomation of the scientific definition of when life begins does not exist. In-vitro is not going away, stem cell research is not going away, birth control pills are not going away.
    If you can put your hyperbole aside, tell me what you believe to be the scientific definition of when human life begins.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    See.

    Usolicited statment from one of our religious board members.

    And how about the spirit living inside the fertilized egg as well? And where did it come from if not sent down by God?
    Unsolicited? Didn't you ask?
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    In-vitro is not going away, stem cell research is not going away, birth control pills are not going away.
    That's a faulty argument. As long as humans exist in this world things like murder, theft, abuse, etc will not go away. Does that make them right?
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    If you can put your hyperbole aside, tell me what you believe to be the scientific definition of when human life begins.
    There isn't one hoovs.

    That's why there are varrying laws from state to state, many of which spelling out first tri-mester.

    If it were my body, I would have tests done early and often.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    There isn't one hoovs.

    That's why there are varrying laws from state to state, many of which spelling out first tri-mester.

    If it were my body, I would have tests done early and often.
    There is no scientific definition of when human life begins?
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    That's a faulty argument. As long as humans exist in this world things like murder, theft, abuse, etc will not go away. Does that make them right?
    Institutional human slavery went away. Legal institutional descrimination based on race or sex has or will go away. We have progress toward enlightenment in this world.

    The neo conservative movement to revert our culture back to that of the 1950s or that of victorian times is not the same type of forward progress.

    That is why it will not go away, no matter how hard you drag your feet.

    And by the way, right and wrong are based on our cultural values, theres another reality that will never go away.
  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    There isn't one hoovs.

    That's why there are varrying laws from state to state, many of which spelling out first tri-mester.

    If it were my body, I would have tests done early and often.
    So, it is at least scientifically feasible to conclude that life begins at conception (regardless of whether that event includes the delivery of a spirit from God).
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