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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    It very well could have been. I was driving for nearly 20 hours in the first 2 days of this week, so I was flipping every 20 minutes from one show to the next not paying much attention to the show but stopped and listened depending on the story or interview they had on at the time.

    But I agree....he does have many extremes on his show. What did you think of that Rabbi?
    he was not your average rabbi that's for sure.
  2. #22  
    You know, in all these threads with the various evidence about whether or not there were WMD found in iraq, seems to me that if there were the scantest reliable and decent evidence of them that the administration would be shouting it from the rooftops, on every news show, interminably. Instead, I have to stretch my brain to remember the few times a public figure has said " we got 'em" (ex. Bush in Poland?), only to backtrack a day or two later.

    I was basically anti-war, not because of pacificism or a disbelief that war can sometimes be justified, but because it seemed to clear that the evidence was basically drummed up. Now I don't see the use in really talking about it anymore except in the context of congressional hearings into the administration's misdoings (that'll happen, psh).

    What I *do* think is more worthy of debate is some sort of nuanced attempt to decide on a national attitude towards Iraq *now* - something better than "Support our troops! We found WMD!" or "Bush is Big Brother! Conspiracy! Pull everybody out now!"

    The aggravating thing is that I agree with at least part of both of those quotes, just not at all in the ways that they're typically used and not with the ends they're typically used for.
  3.    #23  
    Dieter....nice to see you jumping in the discussion!

    Quote Originally Posted by septimus
    seems to me that if there were the scantest reliable and decent evidence of them that the administration would be shouting it from the rooftops, on every news show, interminably.
    This has always been big mystery with this Admin in general. I am not even talking about WMD info, as they are horrible at creating positive PRPRPR $for$ $their$ $side$ $of$ $the$ $argument$ $on$ $any$ $issue$.

    For example, I bet if they found a nuke missile on a launch pad in Iraq that had the previously unknown capability of reaching the continental US with the coordinates set just the day before Saddam fell in 2003 for Washington DC, Bush would let CNN and Fox News spread the word with whatever perspective or spin they wanted and we wouldn't hear anything from him unless pressed with questions.

    Again, no matter what the issue, PRPRPR $is$ $a$ $huge$ $failure$ $since$ $day$ $one$ $with$ $this$ $Admin$.

    Quote Originally Posted by septimus
    Now I don't see the use in really talking about it anymore except in the context of congressional hearings into the administration's misdoings (that'll happen, psh).
    For me, there are three reasons.

    First, I would be willing to personally bet that this coming election year, at some point this will be a point of discussion....whether it is "Look, Bush and the GOP lied, so.....", "The Saddam Dossier proves without any doubt whatsoever that Saddam......", "The American people feel that....", or supporting increasing the UN role in current events to handling confrontational situations fairly and effectively, "as there is no doubt Saddam was cooperating fully with verifying WMDs". It is nice to be able to see what the reality in relation to the latest known information when claims are made by either Dems or Reps.

    Second, I find it fascinating from a historical point of view. I love history. That is why I enjoy reading about the newly translated docs so much. As I state over and over, they are not smoking guns in any sense, just resources to see some of the stuff that was happening behind the scenes. A chance that is not often available in recent historical events....Nazi Docs captured just after WWII being one of the last chances for this.....and there are still discoveries from those today as thousands of those docs are still not scanned and translated yet either!

    Third, if it was true or not, does have a factor on future confrontation when the other side is suspected of having WMDs, i.e. Iran, terrorist group in a based in a foreign country suspected of housing a nuke, ect.... Especially when attempting to form a coalition or gain domestic support.

    Quote Originally Posted by septimus
    What I *do* think is more worthy of debate is some sort of nuanced attempt to decide on a national attitude towards Iraq *now* - something better than "Support our troops! We found WMD!" or "Bush is Big Brother! Conspiracy! Pull everybody out now!"

    The aggravating thing is that I agree with at least part of both of those quotes, just not at all in the ways that they're typically used and not with the ends they're typically used for.
    I agree....if you have an answer and can stretch it out to at least 5 chapters....I am sure you could make a cool million within 4 weeks of book sales.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 07/28/2006 at 01:59 PM.
  4.    #24  
    Here is another side of the coin going around today:

    Sept. 11 Conspiracy Theories Persist



    Kevin Barrett believes the U.S government might have destroyed the World Trade Center. Steven Jones is researching what he calls evidence that the twin towers were brought down by explosives detonated inside them, not by hijacked airliners.

    These men aren't uneducated junk scientists: Barrett will teach a class on Islam at the University of Wisconsin this fall, over the protests of more than 60 state legislators. Jones is a tenured physicist at Brigham Young University whose mainstream academic job has made him a hero to conspiracy theorists.......................

    ...............................The organization says publicity over Barrett's case has helped boost membership to about 75 academics. They are a tiny minority of the 1 million part- and full-time faculty nationwide, and some have no university affiliation. Most aren't experts in relevant fields. But some are well educated, with degrees from elite universities such as Princeton and Stanford and jobs at schools including Rice, Indiana and the University of Texas.

    -------------------------

    The movement claims to be drawing fresh energy and credibility from a recently formed group called Scholars for 9/11 Truth. ( http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/ )

    ------------------------

    What really happened, the national Sept. 11 Commission concluded after 1,200 interviews, was that hijackers crashed planes into the twin towers. The National Institute of Standards and Technology ( http://wtc.nist.gov/ ), a government agency, filed 10,000 pages of reports that found fires caused by the crashing planes were more than sufficient to collapse the buildings.

    The scholars' group rejects those conclusions. Their Web site contends the government has been dishonest. It adds: the "World Trade Center was almost certainly brought down by controlled demolitions" and "the government not only permitted 9/11 to occur but may even have orchestrated these events to facilitate its political agenda."

    FULL STORY: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,207279,00.html
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by septimus
    The aggravating thing is that I agree with at least part of both of those quotes, just not at all in the ways that they're typically used and not with the ends they're typically used for.
    Fencesitter

    Don't you know you have to take a side in all this...
    Palm III-->Palm IIIxe-->Palm 505-->Samsung i300-->Treo 600-->PPC 6600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700wx-->BB Pearl--> BB Curve

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