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  1.    #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    No. Murderers can be religious.
    They can't? Or are you just shoehorning your own religous ideals? The murders during the crusades were not religious? The infanticide of the Andes natives were not religious? The Egyptian virgins that were buried alive? Or the south Pacific ones that were thrown in to the volcano?
  2.    #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Just a note. There's more out there than just the religious and the athiests. I know it simplifies the debate to draw a clear black and white distinction, but its not reality.
    Hobbes was leaving out the um ... "semi deists"?
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    #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Hobbes was leaving out the um ... "semi deists"?
    Of which I am a proud member!
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    No. Murderers can be religious. ... Being religious doesn't mean one is moral, or make them moral, not even a little bit.
    But "religious" and "religion" are not synonymous terms. The question isn't "Does being religious make us more moral?" but "Does RELIGION make us more moral?"

    Of course someone who only APPEARS to be influenced by religion (i.e. he acts religious without a true basis in religion) won't exhibit the same charateristic behaviors as a person who is a "true believer."

    To not make such a distinction would be like discounting the effectiveness of a drug because a person who only appeared to be taking the medication but actually wasn't wasn't cured.

    The effectiveness of religion is not diminished because some people only APPEAR religious.
  5.    #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Of which I am a proud member!
    Not even sure how to engage on that from a philosophical standpoint.
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    #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by awerry
    But "religious" and "religion" are not synonymous terms. The question isn't "Does being religious make us more moral?" but "Does RELIGION make us more moral?"

    Of course someone who only APPEARS to be influenced by religion (i.e. he acts religious without a true basis in religion) won't exhibit the same charateristic behaviors as a person who is a "true believer."

    To not make such a distinction would be like discounting the effectiveness of a drug because a person who only appeared to be taking the medication but actually wasn't wasn't cured.

    The effectiveness of religion is not diminished because some people only APPEAR religious.
    Do universities make people smarter?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
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    #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Not even sure how to engage on that from a philosophical standpoint.
    I take it you disapprove of deists
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8.    #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    I take it you disapprove of deists
    Ohhhh, you are a deist? I must have misunderstood. I thought you were saying something about "semi-deism".

    As far as deism, I have been discussing since post #1. It's the topic of the thread.
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    #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Ohhhh, you are a deist? I must have misunderstood. I thought you were saying something about "semi-deism".

    As far as deism, I have been discussing since post #1. It's the topic of the thread.
    No, you said something about "semi-deism", and I assumed you were refering to deism. What then is semi-deism, if you please?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Do universities make people smarter?
    They didn't in MY case.
  11.    #171  
    You thought "semi-deists" meant deists? Uh, ok. But, in that case, this post makes no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Just a note. There's more out there than just the religious and the athiests. I know it simplifies the debate to draw a clear black and white distinction, but its not reality.
    By the way, seems you missed or ignored post 161.
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    No. Murderers can be religious.
    They can't? Or are you just shoehorning your own religous ideals? The murders during the crusades were not religious? The infanticide of the Andes natives were not religious? The Egyptian virgins that were buried alive? Or the south Pacific ones that were thrown in to the volcano?
  12.    #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by awerry
    They didn't in MY case.
    Me 2.

    But then again, the REALLY stupid ones weren't allowed in.

    http://www.whitehouse.org/administration/georgew.asp
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    #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    You thought "semi-deists" meant deists? Uh, ok. But, in that case, this post makes no sense.By the way, seems you missed or ignored post 161. They can't? Or are you just shoehorning your own religous ideals? The murders during the crusades were not religious? The infanticide of the Andes natives were not religious? The Egyptian virgins that were buried alive? Or the south Pacific ones that were thrown in to the volcano?
    Reread my post please. I said murderers CAN be religious.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14.    #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Reread my post please. I said murderers CAN be religious.
    lol DOH!!
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74

    But then again, the REALLY stupid ones weren't allowed in.

    ]

    Not in my case... I was allowed in because the schools needed to fill their quota of stupid people. Affirmative action!
  16.    #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by awerry
    Not in my case... I was allowed in because the schools needed to fill their quota of stupid people. Affirmative action!
    Ahh, you went to Yale.
  17. #177  
    I hear again and again quotes along the theme of:
    You misunderstand the basis of religion
    or
    That is a common misconception about my religion
    I find this a a very condemning attitude towards religion in general. This implies that there is little consensus as to the ideas and theories religions actually stand for or promote. If we, as informed internet using, techno-savvy individuals cannot seem to grasp the basic themes and ideals of religions, then one can assume the general public are blind to these themes also.

    Every religious person seems to have there own reasons-to-believe, focus or concepts. This makes it very hard to even quantify what a specific religion is fundementally about. Take Christianity - every time an atheist mentions why they think it doesn't fit with science, a non-atheist will use quotes like the ones above to attempt to discredit the arguement. Does anyone have a simple, succint description of what belief makes you a Christian?
    HP Pre 3 (UK)
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by checkmate
    Does anyone have a simple, succint description of what belief makes you a Christian?
    Following the teachings of or trying to live a life guided by the teachings of Jesus Christ.
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
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    #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    Following the teachings of or trying to live a life guided by the teachings of Jesus Christ.
    That, and the salvation through faith thingy.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #180  
    No salvation thing for me. A pure and simple "Following the teachings of or trying to live a life guided by the teachings of Jesus Christ." Per checkmate's post, that's the belief that makes me a Christian. I don't go in for the whole salvation thing.

    Just doing something because of some anticipated reward is not a learning/living way to live life. That's just Pavlovian behavior.

    If there's an afterlife and I get in, cool. If not, guess I'll just have to deal!
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
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