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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #181  
    So you believe in salvation through works.... much like the Jews?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. #182  
    No. I'm not trying to save myself or anyone else. Just feel that the basic tenets of Christ's teachings are worth following. So, that would make me a Christian.
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  3. #183  
    Ive been pondering this whole morality thing, and I have decided being moral means doing something because one believes its right, not for selfish reasons.

    Does religion help us to decide what is right, and does it prompt us to do the right thing because its right? I dont really know.

    Surur
  4. #184  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    No. I'm not trying to save myself or anyone else. Just feel that the basic tenets of Christ's teachings are worth following. So, that would make me a Christian.
    Since you are trying to follow Christ's teachings, what do you do with those teachings of his which indicate you DO need "saving"?
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    No. I'm not trying to save myself or anyone else. Just feel that the basic tenets of Christ's teachings are worth following. So, that would make me a Christian.
    Thats part of what makes a Christian. But most Christians will tell you that there's more to it. Believing Jesus is the Son of God, that He is the only messenger of Gods word, that salvation is only through him, etc. This goes far beyond simply being a Christ-like person.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. #186  
    I would say that it is another way to be a Christian.

    Checkmate just asked:

    Does anyone have a simple, succint description of what belief makes you a Christian?
    So, I provided mine. Which I believe is simple and succint.

    As you and he point out and as others have stated, there are as many ways to interpret religious belief as there are people on earth. Every one will have their own specific ideas of what makes a "good Christian/Hindi/Wiccan/etc.". Religious faiths as groups seek to attract people with similar basic beliefs.

    I've yet to read any teachings that prohibit me being a Christian without belonging to a religious faith. Not that I don't not belong to one. But I don't fall in the mainstream either. (Maybe because I can walk on water? )
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  7. #187  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Thats part of what makes a Christian. But most Christians will tell you that there's more to it. Believing Jesus is the Son of God, that He is the only messenger of Gods word, that salvation is only through him, etc. This goes far beyond simply being a Christ-like person.

    I would have thought the above was a succinct description. Believing in Jesus Christ seems to me to be the principle criteria.

    Surur
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by checkmate
    I find this a a very condemning attitude towards religion in general. This implies that there is little consensus as to the ideas and theories religions actually stand for or promote. If we, as informed internet using, techno-savvy individuals cannot seem to grasp the basic themes and ideals of religions, then one can assume the general public are blind to these themes also.

    Every religious person seems to have there own reasons-to-believe, focus or concepts. This makes it very hard to even quantify what a specific religion is fundementally about. Take Christianity - every time an atheist mentions why they think it doesn't fit with science, a non-atheist will use quotes like the ones above to attempt to discredit the arguement. Does anyone have a simple, succint description of what belief makes you a Christian?
    Well, I think youíre combining issues that donít necessarily need to be combined. First, there are the fundamental tenets to which people should adhere in order to be considered a participant in a particular religion. On the other hand, there are peripheral issues or interpretations about which people within and without a particular religion can disagree. The common understanding of what it means to be a Catholic/Eastern or a Protestant Christian has remained the same for Centuries. Of course, there are groups that would differ in those views from the majority, but thatís a pretty normal part of human nature.

    The common understanding, for nearly two millennia, of the minimum standard of what it means to be a Christian is the belief that one cannot be made right in the eyes of God by keeping any kind of law; rather, one must confess with oneís mouth that Jesus Christ is Lord and believe in oneís heart that God raised Him from the dead (Romans 10).

    Now, the above can and is expanded on in various denominations and groups into what one must believe not only to be a Christian but to also be considered a member of that group. Even beyond that, however, are the peripheral things I was mentioning before about which people who are not only considered Christians but members of a particular Christian group sometimes disagree without breaking the bond that ties them to that group. Mingling these three ideas is what often leads to confusion and consternation.
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    No. I'm not trying to save myself or anyone else. Just feel that the basic tenets of Christ's teachings are worth following. So, that would make me a Christian.
    I agree that Jesus was a great ethicist and teacher. "What would Jesus do?" is a useful ethical test. However, that makes me a "christian" rather than a "Christian." To be a "Christian" one must be "Born Again." One must be a member of "The Church." One must be religious. One must have Faith, "believe."

    I can still say the Apostle's Creed from memory. Indeed, I can still recite the Nicean Creed in latin. I stopped identifying myself as a "Christian" when I realized that I did not, have not, never have, believed either of them. [I still have Hope but no Faith.]
    Last edited by whmurray; 07/20/2006 at 05:30 PM.
  10. #190  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Thats part of what makes a Christian. But most Christians will tell you that there's more to it. Believing Jesus is the Son of God,......
    In some special sense? More so than you or I?

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    .........that He is the only messenger of Gods (sic) word,.......
    Whole lot of important things on which he was silent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    .......that salvation is only through him, etc.
    Does "salvation" imply that the personality survives the grave?

    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    This goes far beyond simply being a Christ-like person.
    Last edited by whmurray; 07/20/2006 at 05:51 PM.
  11. #191  
    There seems to be disagreement still. If God really does exist, why is it so hard for everyone to agree on a standard? Why would an almighty creator make it difficult? Why would he create people of different faiths?
    HP Pre 3 (UK)
  12. #192  
    And of course if God created the big bang, who created God? If an eye or an anteater (one of 'em) is deemed 'too complicated' to have not been 'designed', surely an almighty universe-creating deity is too complicated to have just appeared and must have also been created.
    HP Pre 3 (UK)
  13. #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by checkmate
    There seems to be disagreement still. If God really does exist, why is it so hard for everyone to agree on a standard? Why would an almighty creator make it difficult? Why would he create people of different faiths?
    Did He make it difficult or did we?
  14. #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by checkmate
    There seems to be disagreement still. If God really does exist, why is it so hard for everyone to agree on a standard? Why would an almighty creator make it difficult? Why would he create people of different faiths?
    If you look at a family with 4 kids....even though they were raised under the same roof, with the same standards, examples from their parents, teachings from their parents, etc.... They can be totally different. One could be jail for the 5th time while another is active in their community, faithful church goer, tries to do what he/she thinks is right, married with 3 well behaved polite and successful children, and teaches disadvantaged kids in the inner city for a profession. I think one reason is that we all have been given free will, the ability to make decisions for ourselves.
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    So you believe in salvation through works.... much like the Jews?
    I do not have the foggiest idea what "salvation" means. Can you help?
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Did He make it difficult or did we?
    Man created "God" in his own image, small and petty.
    Last edited by whmurray; 07/21/2006 at 06:21 AM.
  17. #197  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    I do not have the foggiest idea what "salvation" means. Can you help?
    I smell a leading question.
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Man created God in his own image, small and petty.
    If man can, at his best, rise above being small and petty then his Creator is necessarily neither small nor petty.
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I smell a leading question.
    Well, bait perhaps. However, a leading question is one that implies its own answer.

    The term has been thrown about in this forum as though there was an agreed upon understanding.
    Last edited by whmurray; 07/21/2006 at 06:22 AM.
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    If man can, at his best, rise above being small and petty then his Creator is necessarily neither small nor petty.
    Well, the creator is certainly not small, hardly petty. However, the mythical and monotheistic "God," used by man in his stories, is both of those things, not much better than the pantheon that he replaces.
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