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  1. #121  
    First of all, don't take what I have said as an invitation for a change in moderation. Unlike many, I have no strong opinions about how this board should / is being moderated. On the contrary, I appreciate the extra time / effort if not money that Marcus has put in to the Off Topic section of Treo Central. Moderating political discussion flat out takes more work, and that work does not go unappreciated by me.
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    So what's the difference between that blanket statement and yours:
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    Lot's of people kill babies.
    First, you are saying that my post is a gross generalization against .... humans?

    Secondly, the entire quote was
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    Can't believe this language and tone is allowed here, but apparently it is, so ...

    Lot's of people kill babies....
    I began with an acknowledgement that the language could be distastefull but apparently it is allowed. Again, I have no strong opinions on how the board is / should be moderated, I will just make sure to adapt to whatever is / will be considered acceptable.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    First of all, don't take what I have said as an invitation for a change in moderation. Unlike many, I have no strong opinions about how this board should / is being moderated.
    Ok but that seems contradictory. How can you reconcile this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Can't believe this language and tone is allowed here, but apparently it is, so ...
    with this one:

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    First of all, don't take what I have said as an invitation for a change in moderation
    In the first one, are you not questioning why Tom's post is allowed and why it should be moderated? If not, then whats the point in saying that you could not believe its allowed? Additionally, you bring up some other forum guidelines from another discussion board as if it should be the standard here? My question wasnt what was allowed elsewhere but what specifically about Tom's post did you feel violated the forum guidelines?

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    On the contrary, I appreciate the extra time / effort if not money that Marcus has put in to the Off Topic section of Treo Central. Moderating political discussion flat out takes more work, and that work does not go unappreciated by me.
    I think we all do. IMO Everyone understands that its a difficult job but I would ask that if there is something questionable about someones post, we just politely ask the person who wrote it what they meant or what their intent was (i.e. see below).

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    First, you are saying that my post is a gross generalization against .... humans?
    First off, you inserted the word gross. Im not sure why you did (I'd venture to say it was for effect) but your post is a generalization. No less of a generalization than ATM's or Tom's and the fact that it was about 'humans' as you put it makes it no less of a generalization. I pointed it out because you questioned Tom's generalization.

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    I will just make sure to adapt to whatever is / will be considered acceptable.
    I think everyone who ventures into the OT must be a little more accepting of other people's viewpoints. And while I have you here, what was the purpose of these posts:

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Hmm, another mention of Muslim, just like the signature used to say.

    If you top it off with an anti sematism accusation, this thread will be almost complete.
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  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    First of all, don't take what I have said as an invitation for a change in moderation. Unlike many, I have no strong opinions about how this board should / is being moderated.
    Ok but that seems contradictory. How can you reconcile this statement:
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    Can't believe this language and tone is allowed here, but apparently it is, so ...
    with this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    First of all, don't take what I have said as an invitation for a change in moderation
    In the first one, are you not questioning why Tom's post is allowed and why it should be moderated? If not, then whats the point in saying that you could not believe its allowed?
    Not even a little bit contradictory.

    When it became apparent to me that a certain level of language and tone would not be moderated, I surmised that it would be acceptable to use the same tone and or language. I don't make the rules here, only try to follow them.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    ...you are saying that my post is a gross generalization against .... humans?
    First off, you inserted the word gross. Im not sure why you did (I'd venture to say it was for effect) but your post is a generalization. No less of a generalization than ATM's or Tom's and the fact that it was about 'humans' as you put it makes it no less of a generalization. I pointed it out because you questioned Tom's generalization.
    Uh, yes because a gross generalization in my mind, and as outlined in the forum guidelines i posted would be one that is out of bounds, but would a generalization? For example.
    people kill babies
    muslims kill babies
    US soldiers kill babies
    You really don't see a difference?
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    And while I have you here, what was the purpose of these posts:
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Hmm, another mention of Muslim, just like the signature used to say.

    If you top it off with an anti sematism accusation, this thread will be almost complete.
    Sure, the first one has to do with the signature of Advance The Man which until recently made an ironic reference to Islam as the "Religion of Peace", then linked to horrific photos. The mention in question was a line in his post that did not refer to terrorists, but actually said Muslim, I was hoping to get a clarification from ATM.

    The second quote has to do with Advance's response to my post
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    Israeli or Palestinian rockets?
    With
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Am I detecting a bit of antisemitism views from the left on this board?
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Additionally, you bring up some other forum guidelines from another discussion board as if it should be the standard here? My question wasnt what was allowed elsewhere but what specifically about Tom's post did you feel violated the forum guidelines?
    I did suggest that it should be the standard here? I didn't intend to. I thought it was off topic as well, but it was in response to your specific question.
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    What would you like the mods to do?
    Again, no, it wasn't my intention to make an open call to moderate Tom or anyone elses post, only an acknowledgment of the apparent acceptability of a certain tone in the thread before responding with the same tone.
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Uh, yes because a gross generalization in my mind, and as outlined in the forum guidelines i posted would be one that is out of bounds, but would a generalization? For example.You really don't see a difference?
    The forum guidelines are relevant for the discussion here so if we are going to refer to any guidelines, it should be the ones that would apply on this discussion board. http://discussion.treocentral.com/announcement.php?f=6

    It's obvious that there is a difference in the generalizations that you posted. However, "gross" is a matter of degree (notice how you clarified yours by saying "In my mind"). At its very nature, it is subjective. You find someone else's post a 'gross' generalization and find it offensive.

    All three of these generalizations are true; people kill babies, muslims kill babies, US soldiers kill babies. Are they 'gross' generalizations that violate TC's forum guidelines...I don't think so.

    I would add that 'generalizations' are often important to use in these types of discussions. If we had to speak in only specifics, the conversations would be much more labor intensive.
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  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    The mention in question was a line in his post that did not refer to terrorists, but actually said Muslim, I was hoping to get a clarification from ATM.
    If you were truly serious about getting 'clarification' from ATM on why he used the word Muslim instead of terrorist, don't you think the statement should be made in the form of a question

    It's pretty clear that this is not a question or even a statement to probe someone for an answer to a question?
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Hmm, another mention of Muslim, just like the signature used to say.
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  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    The forum guidelines are relevant for the discussion here so if we are going to refer to any guidelines, it should be the ones that would apply on this discussion board. http://discussion.treocentral.com/announcement.php?f=6

    It's obvious that there is a difference in the generalizations that you posted. However, "gross" is a matter of degree (notice how you clarified yours by saying "In my mind"). At its very nature, it is subjective. You find someone else's post a 'gross' generalization and find it offensive.

    All three of these generalizations are true; people kill babies, muslims kill babies, US soldiers kill babies. Are they 'gross' generalizations that violate TC's forum guidelines...I don't think so.

    I would add that 'generalizations' are often important to use in these types of discussions. If we had to speak in only specifics, the conversations would be much more labor intensive.
    Um, for the most part, yeah. That's the difference between a generalization, and an extreme or racist post or "gross generalization".

    With respect to why i posted some political forum guidelines, as I said, I thought it was off topic as well, but it was a direct answer, to your direct question.
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    What would you like the mods to do?
    I expanded and said that, it's not something that I would really "like" them to do, I have no strong feelings on it.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    If you were truly serious about getting 'clarification' from ATM on why he used the word Muslim instead of terrorist, don't you think the statement should be made in the form of a question

    It's pretty clear that this is not a question or even a statement to probe someone for an answer to a question?
    His statement was
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    When Muslim communities harbor terrorists, those communities must be ripped apart in order that they can be put back together in a way that will not be terrorist breeding grounds. Hold Muslim communities accountable for their complicity.
    If I read a post calling attention to my mention of "ripping Muslim communities apart", I would clarify, but good point, I went back and made it more clear.
  11.    #131  
    What's wrong with calling a spade a spade? Should we call it a "shovel"?
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    His statement was If I read a post calling attention to my mention of "ripping Muslim communities apart", I would clarify, but good point, I went back and made it more clear.
    It was a link to an op/ed which was provided. Read the op/ed in it's entireity and you may understand the author's point.
  13. #133  
    I don't understand what is wrong with calling a member of hamas or hezbollah a baby killer, or terrorist, or even scum bag. Israel is not intentionally killing babies, hamas and hezbollah are. Dropping a bomb on a sub-division is not intentionally killing innocent people when terrorists purposefully place their base of operations in that sub-division. If they didn't want their own people to die, they could move the base somewhere else.
  14.    #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23
    If they didn't want their own people to die, they could move the base somewhere else.
    That's part of the ploy: "If it causes Israel to avoid bombing our leaders then great. But if Israel bombs anyway at least we can cart some dead kids in front of the cameras and get the world community on our side."
  15. TomUps's Avatar
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    #135  
    Blaze,
    Its amazing to me you have such a problem with me calling hamas and hezbollah baby killers. I will never apologize for saying the truth, they are indeed terrorists who target and kill babies. Unfortunately it looks like the only path to peace will be the total elimination of these slime (you will probably also have a problem with me calling these terrorists slime)

    I do not think your anti-semetic
  16. #136  
    I've read the last few pages of this thread and I'm becoming increasingly concerned that it can't be saved. I feel that several users here, on both sides, are baiting each other. I can't tell if it's intentional or not, but my attitude of 'take things in good faith' leads me to say this:

    Please turn the conversation away from these subtle and not-so-subtle baitings or warnings and bans will be forthcoming.
  17. #137  
    he did it first
  18. #138  
    Let me just throw this out there: IF we decide that bombing and attacking areas of concentrated terrorists (and regrettably civilians) is something we cannot do, what is the alternative?

    Im no expert on Vietnam (a little before my time), but essentially this has happened before right? The vietcong would attack, melt back into the jungle and assimilate back into the villages? This then forced US forces to go into the villages to weed out the VC and regrettably innocents were killed.

    I tend to favor ATM's argument that the civilians have to do a much better job of keeping the terrorists out by not providing safe harbor. Or when they do, they need to do a better job of informing US forces who they are so we can surgically extract them (which to my understanding has happened...especially with the higher ups in AQ).
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  19.    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Let me just throw this out there: IF we decide that bombing and attacking areas of concentrated terrorists (and regrettably civilians) is something we cannot do, what is the alternative?

    Im no expert on Vietnam (a little before my time), but essentially this has happened before right? The vietcong would attack, melt back into the jungle and assimilate back into the villages? This then forced US forces to go into the villages to weed out the VC and regrettably innocents were killed.

    I tend to favor ATM's argument that the civilians have to do a much better job of keeping the terrorists out by not providing safe harbor. Or when they do, they need to do a better job of informing US forces who they are so we can surgically extract them (which to my understanding has happened...especially with the higher ups in AQ).
    I agree. I just heard an interview with a Lebanese Christian woman who is actually in favor of the Israeli actions. She said when she was young Hizbollah would move into a Christian neighborhood and launch rocket attacks into Israel and then leave. So when Israel launched counter-attacks they would be hitting the Christians.
  20. TomUps's Avatar
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    #140  
    Let me just throw this out there: IF we decide that bombing and attacking areas of concentrated terrorists (and regrettably civilians) is something we cannot do, what is the alternative?
    The alternative is do nothing and let you own people die by future terrorist attacks. Any parent who lets their child near a terrorist safe house, meeting house ,or hq should be ashamed of themselves.
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