Page 4 of 47 FirstFirst 12345678914 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 923
  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Im not accusing anyone here of being Anti-Semetic. However, you do have to question why for some, its ok for the Palestinians or even Hezbolah to suicide attack Israel, fire rockets into Israel, and invade Israel, but at the same time, Israel is not allowed to defend itself, protect its borders, and kill the enemy before it kills its own.

    The worlds constant condemnation whenever Israel attacks is ALWAYS met by a defeaning silence whenever Israel is attacked. Same can be said about some members of this board who are so quick to jump on any offensive Israel makes. To some, the only explanation of this double standard is Anti-Semetism.
    I can't see what you mean, the overwhelming majority of posts I have seen here on the board, have been outright repudiations of the Palestinian side, and defense of the Israeli side.

    I've been called an anti-semite for suggesting that both sides might miss loved ones when killed by rockets.
  2. #62  
    I've read supporters of both sides. I support Israel's side. I think wanting the destruction of any race or religion is wrong.
    Last edited by Advance The Man; 07/14/2006 at 11:37 AM.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Lets look at some of the minor actions of Hamas and Hezbolah (and we can throw in Islamic Jihad and Fatah who are all funded by Iran and Syria).

    1. Blowing up children in resturants
    2. Blowing up buses filled with civilians
    3. Firing rockets at civilian targets like schools
    4. invading Israels (hezbolah) northern border.
    5. Failure of the palestinian goverment to recognize Israels right to exist
    6. Kidnapping of soldiers
    OK, "minor" was bad wording, sorry for that, it's not what I meant. None of the above is minor. What I meant is that Israel is the much more powerful side in this conflict. Hamas has Kalashnikows and rockets (most home-made, some not), Israel has tanks, helicopter gunships, laser guided missiles. Both sides blow up children and fire rockets at civilians - the Palestinian terrorists as the main goal to spread terror, the Israeli side as expected and accepted collateral damage. Both sides invade foreign territory, kidnap and kill their ennemies. The number of civilian casualties on the Palestinian side is far greater than the number of Israeli civilian casualties, if I remember correctly by about a factor of three.

    However, this does not mean that Israel is morally wrong just because they have these weapons and use them when attacked by terrorists. The terror of Hamas, Hezbollah and the like is immoral and unacceptable without question, that goes without saying in my view. What I am saying is that Israel has often been using its power in a way which fuels hatred, sponsors Hamas, creates more suicide bombers, terrorism, etc. The way they acted in Gaza and the West Bank inevitably leads to humiliation, outrage, hatred and violence (and I don't mean the actions of the last days and weeks, I mean what has been going on in the past years/decades).

    E.g. building a wall around the West Bank in order to increase security makes perfect sense. Abusing this measure to ruin the existence of many Palestinian farmers, take more land, make life impossible in some Palestinian towns is just another turn in the spiral of hatred. Israel is the victim of terrorist attacks and has the right to defend itsself. But Israel also has its share in how much Palestinians hate them.

    It's fair to say the Palestinian/Arabic side started it, and for a long time, I was totally on the side of Israel. But in the past maybe 10 years, Israel has lost quite a bit of my support because of how they treated the Palestinians (not the terrorists, the general population).
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    It's fair to say the Palestinian/Arabic side started it, and for a long time, I was totally on the side of Israel. But in the past maybe 10 years, Israel has lost quite a bit of my support because of how they treated the Palestinians (not the terrorists, the general population).
    You mean like driving an American tank over an old woman's house because of the crimes of her grandson?
  5. TomUps's Avatar
    Posts
    22 Posts
    Global Posts
    28 Global Posts
    #65  
    Israel is the victim of terrorist attacks and has the right to defend itsself. But Israel also has its share in how much Palestinians hate them.
    I agree somewhat. Israel shares a fair share of the blame. However, you have to remember Israel is surronded on all sides by enemies that want (and I will only accept) their destruction. Its not anymore a matter of just leaving Gaza and the Westbank. Hamas does not want peacefull relations with Israel. They want to destroy it. You have to admit that someone who wants you destruction doesn't make the best neighbor.

    Hezbolah has no claim whatsoever on Israel. They have attacked a foreign country, and the world expresses outrage when Israel responds. What is Israel to do? Can you imagine if hundreds or rockets were fired into the US from Mexico. The US would respond with mega force to defend its citizens.

    Iran is really to blame. They sends 100s of millions of dollars to hezbolah and other terrorist factions every year. It is to their advantage that the killings continue.
  6. TomUps's Avatar
    Posts
    22 Posts
    Global Posts
    28 Global Posts
    #66  
    You mean like driving an American tank over an old woman's house because of the crimes of her grandson?
    You forgot to mention that grandson just blew up a resturant and killed 20 children. The grandmother now considers her son and hero, and hopes the rest of her grandchildren will follow. Amazing how you keep leaving that point out. Little bit of a double standard huh? You seem quite upset about the house, not the dead children.
  7. #67  
    I particularily love that. It persuades what would be many more murdering terrorists. But, I'm not certain the rules Israel has. Are you certain they would destroy the home of the grandparent or just the home the murderer lived in?

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    You mean like driving an American tank over an old woman's house because of the crimes of her grandson?
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    You mean like driving an American tank over an old woman's house because of the crimes of her grandson?
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I particularily love that. It persuades what would be many more murdering terrorists. But, I'm not certain the rules Israel has. Are you certain they would destroy the home of the grandparent or just the home the murderer lived in?
    omg, I don't know, but you "particularly love" destroying the home of the bomber's family? Just as long as the bomber lived there before?
  9. #69  
    Is it getting a little too hot in here, or is it just me?

    Simmer down now everybody. :/
  10. #70  
    Yes, it's a deterent. If a 12 year old sees a friend's house destroyed b/c his 18 year old brother murdered 20 Israeli's he will unlikely make the same mistake. Many of these families know and support the murderer's decision. They are often compensated by terrorist organization for their loss. This is black and white to me. You have one side provoking another. How many Israeli's need to be murdered before they are allowed to respond. I think it's amazing the restrained this long.

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    omg, I don't know, but you "particularly love" destroying the home of the bomber's family? Just as long as the bomber lived there before?
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Yes, it's a deterent. If a 12 year old sees a friend's house destroyed b/c his 18 year old brother murdered 20 Israeli's he will unlikely make the same mistake. Many of these families know and support the murderer's decision. They are often compensated by terrorist organization for their loss. This is black and white to me. You have one side provoking another. How many Israeli's need to be murdered before they are allowed to respond. I think it's amazing the restrained this long.
    In light of septimus' post, I am not even sure how to respond to that.

    I think that knocking down the house of any crimnial's wife, children, or family would serve as a deterrent to any crime. But that doesn't make it any less hatefull and unjust.
  12. TomUps's Avatar
    Posts
    22 Posts
    Global Posts
    28 Global Posts
    #72  
    again blaze, I must ask, you seeme very concerned for the destryed house,not the dead children. Just wondering why that is.
  13. #73  
    Septemus is just trying to reign in the personal attacks by many of it's members.

    I'd much rather have my house bulldozed then scores of nails and chards of steel ripped through my torso.

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    In light of septimus' post, I am not even sure how to respond to that.

    I think that knocking down the house of any crimnial's wife, children, or family would serve as a deterrent to any crime. But that doesn't make it any less hatefull and unjust.
  14. #74  
    Originally Posted By: clulup at Today 12:26 PM
    ow much Palestinians hate them.

    "It's fair to say the Palestinian/Arabic side started it, and for a long time, I was totally on the side of Israel. But in the past maybe 10 years, Israel has lost quite a bit of my support because of how they treated the Palestinians (not the terrorists, the general population)."


    clulup,

    You make a fine armchair QB. I would be very interested to observe your response to missiles landing all about your "neutral" country. I hear what you're saying, but I venture to surmise that you do not know what it would be like to live under constant and barbaric attack.

    P.s. Valiant effort septimus. This is the hottest of topics, good luck. Other than the A word, things seem quite civil.
    Visor-->Visor Phone-->Treo 180-->Treo 270-->Treo 600-->Treo 650-->Treo 700P-->Treo 755P-->Centro-->Pre+-->Pre 2
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Septemus is just trying to reign in the personal attacks by many of it's members.
    Finally, thank god, and the religious intolerance too.

    I for one, appreciate the extra effort it requires.
  16. #76  
    "you have to remember Israel is surronded on all sides by enemies that want (and I will only accept) their destruction."

    -way too many people overlook this fact when giving their opinion on this situstation.

    "I think that knocking down the house of any crimnial's wife, children, or family would serve as a deterrent to any crime. But that doesn't make it any less hatefull and unjust."

    At least it doesn't involve murdering 20 innocent people in a shopping center. (I really can't belive that I even have to defend this policy in the light of what it is a reaction to)

    This is gonna sound crazy, but I honestly believe that there are people who either have a "heart" for isreal, or don't. Its like being a batman or a superman guy. Some people don't recognize the significance of isreals presence in the middle east..... and some people do (ME). No matter how hard you argue (on either side), your heart or gut connection will not change. For some reason, my heart is attached to isreal and I can't even explain why. <-----I know I'll get flammed for this statement, but It is how I feel about the whole situation. I'm not saying Isreal is blamless, but common..... seriously.... who has done MORE to foster peace (Isreal or Palestine)?
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    again blaze, I must ask, you seeme very concerned for the destryed house,not the dead children. Just wondering why that is.
    I neither identify with, take up the cause of, or accept the tactics or ideology of those that would either drop a 2000 pound "bunker buster" on an apartment building and call it "collateral damage", those that would carry a nail bomb in to a cafe or an abortion clinic, those that would drive a fertilizer bomb in to a day care, or those that would punish the wives and children of their criminals.

    It has nothing to do with "having a heart for Israel", or for palestine, and the idea that the question is framed with phrases like "dead children" with the implication that one side or the other, or other board members are "not concerned" is appalling.
  18. TomUps's Avatar
    Posts
    22 Posts
    Global Posts
    28 Global Posts
    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    I neither identify with, take up the cause of, or accept the tactics or ideology of those that would either drop a 2000 pound "bunker buster" on an apartment building and call it "collateral damage", those that would carry a nail bomb in to a cafe or an abortion clinic, those that would drive a fertilizer bomb in to a day care, or those that would punish the wives and children of their criminals.

    It has nothing to do with "having a heart for Israel", or for palestine, and the idea that the question is framed with phrases like "dead children" with the implication that one side or the other, or other board members are "not concerned" is appalling.
    I'm sorry your appalled, that seems to happen often though.

    My point is you have repeatedly brought up the the demolition of the homes of suicide bombers as unjust. I find (and still do) incredible how anybody could compare that to the murder of innocent children in resturants and buses. It seems you only acknowledge that when pressed on it.

    As for your comment about punnishing the wives or children of criminals, I think if one would be suicide bomber changed his mind about blowing to bits innocent Israeli children because he was afraid his parents home would be demolished, then the tactic was an incredible success. I know its probably difficult for people sitting saftley in their homes thousands of miles away to understand that though.
  19. TomUps's Avatar
    Posts
    22 Posts
    Global Posts
    28 Global Posts
    #79  
    This description from MSNBC details the Hezbollah leader. I think all Americans should be aware who Israel is now fighting....

    "Mugniyah is described as the head of the Hezbollah's "action group" and according to U.S. intelligence, was responsible for the kidnappings of most Americans in Lebanon; the torture and murder of Marine Lt. Corp. Rich Higgins and the CIA's Beirut station chief William Buckley, personally taking part in Buckley's torture; and the bombings of the Marine compound as well as the U.S. embassy, which cost more than 300 American lives. He also planned the 1985 TWA hijacking that left a Navy diver dead."
  20. #80  
    Here are some of the recent headlines:

    'Open war' declared in Middle East

    Syria says fully backs Hizbollah against Israel
    Syria will support Hizbollah and Lebanon against Israel's attacks on the country, the ruling Baath Party said on Friday, defying the Jewish state and its chief ally Washington.

    "The Syrian people are ready to extend full support to the Lebanese people and their heroic resistance to remain steadfast and confront the barbaric Israeli aggression and its crimes,"
    Hezbollah drone blasts Israeli warship

    Warns Israel of a Crushing Response If It Dares to Attack Syria
Page 4 of 47 FirstFirst 12345678914 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions