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  1. TomUps's Avatar
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    #641  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Oh yea, I forgot about that. Hope they don't join forces with Mel.
    Mel is most definately a hero in the Arab world now.
  2. #642  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Who said that? I didnt. However, Even you must admit to the hypocrisy of the world when they cry over Israel killing civilians in Lebanon, while Hezbollah fires its rockets at civilians in Israel. Wheres the outrage over that? Come on Dat, you can see it.

    By the way, that glorified hobby rocket killed another today.
    Yup and I would ask that it stop, on all sides.

    I think the reason the world appears hypocritical is that they are aware of the unevenness of the military technologies.

    I feel Hezbollah's actions to be irresponsible not only to the Israeli victims of their innaccurate rockets but to the overall cause as they cannot meet their objectives militarily but will accept provoking Israel to respond heavy handedly to provoke sympathy from the world community which Israel seems only too willing to oblige.

    Silver lining, some kind of meaningful talks will begin and bring some movement towards a lasting peace in which both sides can co-exist with justice.
  3. NRG
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    #643  
    Also, is military action helping or exacerbating the terror problem?
  4. NRG
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    #644  
    In reference to my earlier post about Rush's rational and who agrees w/ it.

    “The American people, they are not exonerated from responsibility because they chose this government and voted for it, despite their knowledge of its crimes.” That was said by Osama bin Laden.
  5. TomUps's Avatar
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    #645  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Also, is military action helping or exacerbating the terror problem?
    So Israel should do nothing when rockets fall on their cities and terrorists invade their borders? Why should one side be held to a higher moral standard than the other?
  6. TomUps's Avatar
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    #646  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I think the reason the world appears hypocritical is that they are aware of the unevenness of the military technologies.
    In the Arab world, its ALL because its Muslim vs. Jew. That is the only reason. Europe has to contend with large (and growing) muslim immigrants. Most of these governments know they would have large riots, and sadly terrorist attacks if they sided more with Israel. And, if that wasnt enough, lets never discard anti-semitism when it comes to Europe and the old soviet states.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Silver lining, some kind of meaningful talks will begin and bring some movement towards a lasting peace in which both sides can co-exist with justice.
    I think this is what almost everybody wants (except the extremists on both sides). The problem is, in the Arab world, Extremists are the presidents, prime ministers, and religious leaders.
  7. #647  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Also, is military action helping or exacerbating the terror problem?
    The verdict is still out, but my hunch is that if your family is terrorized you'd do something about it.

    Personally I agree with this article as it pertains to the effectiveness of the air-strikes on Lebanon: (link)
    Last edited by impish; 08/02/2006 at 02:43 PM.
  8. NRG
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    #648  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    So Israel should do nothing when rockets fall on their cities and terrorists invade their borders? Why should one side be held to a higher moral standard than the other?
    I would read the article impish posted.
  9. NRG
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    #649  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish

    Personally I agree with this article as it pertains to the effectiveness of the air-strikes on Lebanon: (link)
    That article states all of what I have been saying since the beginning of this thread. There is some parts I disagree w/ but 95% I agree.
  10. #650  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    That article states all of what I have been saying since the beginning of this thread. There is some parts I disagree w/ but 95% I agree.
    Well than you and I aren't that far from agreeing. Although I am curious about the 5% left in your disagreement...
  11. NRG
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    #651  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish
    Well than you and I aren't that far from agreeing. Although I am curious about the 5% left in your disagreement...
    Here they are:

    And though long-range rockets will continue to be launched at Israel from central Lebanon, Israel can address that threat by surgical aerial attacks
    A triumphant Iran will be empowered to extend its influence into Lebanon and the Gulf, and to pitch Iraq into a full-scale civil war. Tehran, together with its allies in Damascus, can establish its primacy from the Arabian Sea to the Mediterranean.
  12. TomUps's Avatar
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    #652  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I would read the article impish posted.
    Not sure what military experience you have NRG, but why would the Israelis not soften up Hezbollah before sending in the troops? Failure to do this would only lead to the deaths of more Israeli troops. It appears the ground invasions are beginning now. How many armchair generals are there now telling Israel how to fight this war?
  13. NRG
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    #653  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Not sure what military experience you have NRG, but why would the Israelis not soften up Hezbollah before sending in the troops? Failure to do this would only lead to the deaths of more Israeli troops. It appears the ground invasions are beginning now. How many armchair generals are there now telling Israel how to fight this war?
    What exactly have they softened up?
  14.    #654  
    Quote Originally Posted by impish
    The verdict is still out, but my hunch is that if your family is terrorized you'd do something about it.

    Personally I agree with this article as it pertains to the effectiveness of the air-strikes on Lebanon: (link)
    I think the article is both a little pessimistic about the outcomes if the author's plan is not followed as well as overly optimistic about the outcomes if it is followed. But I think the plan itself is workable. What I would change about it is that I don't think Israel should withdraw until the international forces come.
  15. TomUps's Avatar
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    #655  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    What exactly have they softened up?
    I dont know....., hezbollah positions, bunkers, weapon caches, supply lines, make it harder for the enemy to rearm, make it harder for the enemy to communicate between hezbollah leaders in lebanon and in Syria, killed many of Hezbollah fighters that they will now be fighting on the ground, made it harder for hezbollah to find places to hide and to setup ambushes....etc.

    I guess with your years of military experience, you missed this.



    The real question is, now that the ground invasion has begun, will Israel be allowed to finish the job, and will they be able to accept the casualities it will take.
  16. NRG
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    #656  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    What I would change about it is that I don't think Israel should withdraw until the international forces come.
    I think the article states just that, am I mistaken?

    edit: This is the part that is a unclear. Sorry, for the mistake.

    Even if efforts at international intervention fail, Israel can withdraw to its own border knowing that it has substantively diminished Hezbollah's power and prestige, while sending a message of deterrence to Syria and Iran.
  17. NRG
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    #657  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    I dont know....., hezbollah positions, bunkers, weapon caches, supply lines, make it harder for the enemy to rearm, make it harder for the enemy to communicate between hezbollah leaders in lebanon and in Syria, killed many of Hezbollah fighters that they will now be fighting on the ground, made it harder for hezbollah to find places to hide and to setup ambushes....etc.
    All those apartment buildings?
  18.    #658  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I think the article states just that, am I mistaken?
    Yes, but follows up with this:
    Even if efforts at international intervention fail, Israel can withdraw to its own border knowing that it has substantively diminished Hezbollah's power and prestige, while sending a message of deterrence to Syria and Iran.
    I think Israel would be prudent to now completely withdraw until it appears efforts at international intervension will be at least minimally successful. I realize that's putting a lot of faith in an organization that doesn't have a very good track record, but if they do fail I don't see an end to the Hizbullah reinforcements that Iran is ready to pump into the area.
  19. TomUps's Avatar
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    #659  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    All those apartment buildings?
    War is an evil, bad thing. Unfortunately Israel is fighting a force that operates out of civilian areas, fires rockets from next to apartment buildings, has its command Hqs in civilian areas. Hezbollah does this on purpose. Everybody knows this. Unfortunately for these civilians, Hezbollah is using them as a shield. Its also unfortunate for these people, that since Israel is now fighting for its survival, it has no choice to go into these areas and clear out these terrorists, causing many civilians to die.

    Strange, you mention apartment buildings in Lebanon, but not apartment buildings in Israel being hit by rockets and missles.
  20. NRG
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    #660  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Yes, but follows up with this:

    I think Israel would be prudent to now completely withdraw until it appears efforts at international intervension will be at least minimally successful. I realize that's putting a lot of faith in an organization that doesn't have a very good track record, but if they do fail I don't see an end to the Hizbullah reinforcements that Iran is ready to pump into the area.
    I edited before you posted. Not a very clear passage as far as I am concerned.

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