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  1. #521  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Again, I don't think anyone of us knows at this point why it happened.

    But, since we're on the topic, what were they doing all of those years?
    We're not on that topic. You are.
  2.    #522  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    We're not on that topic. You are.
    So you don't care why they were there you just care about why they were bombed? But didn't the fact that they were there play a very big factor in their getting bombed?
  3. #523  
    DaThomas said "cite please"....

    It's from my wife (does that make it hearsay, or "her-say"?)!

    She has been working with evacuees from Lebanon who are coming to the US, and has heard lots of their stories.
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    #524  
    hoovs,
    who knows what they were doing. I can tell you what they weren't doing.....disarming hezbollah.
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    #525  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Seriously, I fail to see how you can't find this to be anything other than cold-blooded murder?
    If it was intentional I agree. We know the attacks by Hezbollah are intentional, so do you agree in calling them cold-blooded murders? If not, I fail to see how you can tell the difference.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  6. #526  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    So you don't care why they were there you just care about why they were bombed? But didn't the fact that they were there play a very big factor in their getting bombed?
    Yea, and repeatedly telling the Israelis where they were and to stop shelling did not play a factor in the prevention of their murders.
  7. #527  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1
    DaThomas said "cite please"....

    It's from my wife (does that make it hearsay, or "her-say"?)!

    She has been working with evacuees from Lebanon who are coming to the US, and has heard lots of their stories.
    Interesting. What kind of work?
  8. #528  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    If it was intentional I agree. We know the attacks by Hezbollah are intentional, so do you agree in calling them cold-blooded murders? If not, I fail to see how you can tell the difference.
    Well since you answered your question to me for me then commented on it why don't you just continue on your own and I won't interrupt you.
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    #529  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Well since you answered your question to me for me then commented on it why don't you just continue on your own and I won't interrupt you.
    Slow down and read it again. I said IF not, that is not an answer, it is still a question, and then made a statement following IF . But, if you prefer not to answer that is answer enough for most.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  10. #530  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Seriously, I fail to see how you can't find this to be anything other than cold-blooded murder?
    I am curious in your view of this tragedy, that is potentially an accident (unless you have solid proof other wise, other than since it was Israel they must be guilty) or possibly intentional (again no proof at this time)......vs the practices by Hezz that I stated in post 153?
  11. #531  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Seriously, I fail to see how you can't find this to be anything other than cold-blooded murder?
    You don't know that, it is still being investigated. But, regardless, I'll say it again: There's no excuse for it!

    Very relevant: This has been investigated and found factual; Hezbollah is responsible for, among other things:

    * The 1985 hijacking of TWA flight 847, which featured the famous footage of the plane’s pilot leaning out of the cockpit with a gun to his head.
    * Two major 1990s attacks on Jewish targets in Argentina—the 1992 bombing of the Israeli Embassy (killing twenty-nine) and the 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center (killing ninety-five).

    And this is why it is relevant -- I am yet to hear you saying this here: Is Hezbollah responsible for cold-blooded murders or not?! (A simple "yes" or "no" would be appreciated!)
    Last edited by impish; 07/26/2006 at 05:56 PM.
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    #532  
    A large percentage of the worlds population does not like Israel. Their views will always be as such that Israel is to blame for every conflict, every civilian death, every terrorist attack, every mid east war, and to some any negative thing that occurs in the world. These same people will be the first to condemn Israel (even at times its acting in defense of its own citizens), while totally ignoring or showing a complete indifference to the acts of its enemies that have invaded Israel, blown up its civilians, denied Israels right to exist, and call for Israels destruction. These people often call Israels creation a mistake, and some suggest the jewish majority of Israel should relocate to other areas of the world.

    These very people are the exact reason why the existence of Israel is a neccesity in todays world. No amount of Israeli civilian deaths, no matter how many times Israel will be invaded by its arab neighbors, no matter how many other Jews are singled out as a target for violence around the world will convince these people that Israel has a right to defend itself, and the country of Israel is here to stay. Israel has no choice to fight, in a world where their enemies can do no wrong.
    Last edited by TomUps; 07/26/2006 at 08:54 PM.
  13. #533  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    A large percentage of the worlds population does not like Israel. Their views will always be as such that Israel is to blame for every conflict, every civilian death, every terrorist attack, every mid east war, and to some any negative thing that occurs in the world. These same people will be the first to condemn Israel (even at times its acting in defense of its own citizens), while totally ignoring or showing a complete indifference to the acts of its enemies that have invaded Israel, blown up its civilians, denied Israels right to exist, and call for Israels destruction. These people often call Israels creation a mistake, and some suggest the jewish majority of Israel should relocate to other areas of the world.

    These very people are the exact reason why the existence of Israel is a neccesity in todays world. No amount of Israeli civilian deaths, no matter how many times Israel will be invaded by its arab neighbors, no matter how many other Jews are singled out as a target for violence around the world will convince these people that Israel has a right to defend itself, and the country of Israel is here to stay. Israel has no choice to fight, in a world where their enemies can do no wrong.
    Well stated. Except for the "neccesity (sic) in todays world"? Now realize I'm not suggesting it should not exist but rather what about the nature of the country of Israel makes it a necessity in today's world?
  14. #534  
    TomUps: Nicely said.
    I try to keep an open mind on the Israeli-Arab-Palestinian conflict and respect all sides' emotions and history, yet it irks me to no end that Israel, far too often, is blamed for all malaise in the Middle East. Blaming is too easy; making changes in the status-quo is bravery.
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    #535  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Well stated. Except for the "neccesity (sic) in todays world"? Now realize I'm not suggesting it should not exist but rather what about the nature of the country of Israel makes it a necessity in today's world?
    Its the nature of the world that makes it a necessity. There are few countries in the world today where jewish people can live without facing overwhelming hatred, and violence. All one has to do is open a text book in an arab country to see the propaganda, lies, and unbelievable anti-semitism that exists in todays world. Remember, it was only alittle more than a half century ago that a madman tried to rid the world of all jews by killing over 6 million. Today we see the Iranian president denying the holocaust ever existed, and the Hezbollah leader (who is a hero to the arab world and media), claiming he wants to target and kill jews anywhere in the world. There are to many of these type of people who want to finish what hitler started. Thats where Israel and the IDF come in.

    With that being said, a lasting peace and a middle ground must be created between the palestinians and Israel. Two states side by side. I think it will take great leaders on both sides to find peace.
  16. #536  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Its the nature of the world that makes it a necessity. There are few countries in the world today where jewish people can live without facing overwhelming hatred, and violence. All one has to do is open a text book in an arab country to see the propaganda, lies, and unbelievable anti-semitism that exists in todays world. Remember, it was only alittle more than a half century ago that a madman tried to rid the world of all jews by killing over 6 million. Today we see the Iranian president denying the holocaust ever existed, and the Hezbollah leader (who is a hero to the arab world and media), claiming he wants to target and kill jews anywhere in the world. There are to many of these type of people who want to finish what hitler started. Thats where Israel and the IDF come in.
    What about America? And as the "Mistake" op/ed piece points out, did not the artificial creation of Israel (and realize, that at this point I feel what's done is done) create this backlash of anti-semitism?


    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    With that being said, a lasting peace and a middle ground must be created between the palestinians and Israel. Two states side by side. I think it will take great leaders on both sides to find peace.
    I agree. However, I also feel that Israel should take the lead on this. And I don't believe a giant concrete wall is the solution. Extreme poverty and lack of standard social services is what has allowed Hezbollah to thrive in certain areas. Should not Israel fight as strongly on that front?
  17. NRG
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    #537  
    The UN attack kinda reminds me of the USS Liberty incident.

    www.ussliberty.org
  18. #538  
    I heard twice today on the cable news channels that there are unconfirmed rumors that the leader of Hez is hiding out in the Iran embassy in Lebanon. There is suspicion that this is where he filmed his last statement that he sent out claiming he is now going to be able to take the war further into Israel than ever before.

    If true.......or even if Israel thinks it is true......this is a recipe ripe for major escalations in the this whole situation.
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    #539  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    What about America? And as the "Mistake" op/ed piece points out, did not the artificial creation of Israel (and realize, that at this point I feel what's done is done) create this backlash of anti-semitism?
    Should all jews have to live in America then? Also, I can tell you as someone that went to a mid-western college, theres plenty of anti-semetism here too. Whether it be wild claims that jews control Hollywood, run our banking systems and courts, or decide our foriegn policy.

    As for the creation of Israel causing the backlash, what was hitlers excuse?
    Maybe to the Arab world, the creation of Israel started the current anti-semetism trends, but these people need to realize Israel is not going anywhere. Settling for nothing short of Israels destruction will only guarantee this conflict continues forever.


    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I agree. However, I also feel that Israel should take the lead on this. And I don't believe a giant concrete wall is the solution. Extreme poverty and lack of standard social services is what has allowed Hezbollah to thrive in certain areas. Should not Israel fight as strongly on that front?
    Not sure bout the poverty claim. Is Lebanon a very poor country? Even if it is, why is it Israels responsibility? Is Mexico being a poor country our responsibility? Iran sends hundreds of millions of dollars to Hezbollah for guns and rockets, maybe this can be redistributed in other ways besides weapons. Maybe some of the other oil rich arab regimes could kick in some money.
    Last edited by TomUps; 07/27/2006 at 07:43 AM.
  20. #540  
    da thomas said "Interesting. What kind of work?".

    My wife has been volunteering to help them get whatever they need to get home.

    Here in Maryland thousands of the evacuees are arriving at BWI airport from Lebanon (through Cyprus). Some were evacuated with nothing more than the clothes on their backs. Maryland State, Local, & Federal officials, the Red Cross, Churches, and private industry have come together, converting the International Arrivals part of the airport into a busling center to handle the influx and help people get home. They are greeted at the planes, cheered when they get off, and directed to various stations according to their need. There are paramedics and a first aid station (one woman travelled alone 3 months pregnant, others have a lot of dehydration issues). Hundreds of volunteers have been working for about a week now, as these flights come in at all hours of the day, most usually at night or in the wee hours of the morning. Some just go on connecting flights they have already arranged, but others have to find flights, or trains, to wherever in the US their home is. Computer terminals have been set-up to try to book transportation to get these people home as fast and cheaply as possible. Others need hotel rooms while awaiting flights out of BWI. Those can be booked as well. Shuttles to hotels or the train station are arranged, too. Those with no money are sent to a table to arrange prommisarry notes so they can book their flights. Food and snacks are given out, and each child gets a special Red-Cross Mickey Mouse doll for comfort. While Mom or Dad are going through the stations, they can leave their children at a daycare facility, with proceedures to make sure they are the only ones that can pick-up the child. These kids are drawing lots of happy drawings (few morbid ones), with lots of American Flags. Almost all of the adults are very thankful for the US government getting them out, and for all the work the volunteers are doing to ease their travels. It is a beautiful example of cooperation between all these agencies and organizations, with no turf wars... sort of the anti-katrina in the way it has been handled.

    One minute my wife may be on the computer helping arrange a train ride for a family, then she may move over to be a greeter (each family has a greeter that stays with them and helps them through the process), everybody pitches in where needed. A Maryland state Cabinet Secretary found out a family did not have a ride to a hotel, so he packed them in his personal car and took them over so they could get some sleep. Another state official got his hands dirty, helping to welcome and direct families as they disembarked the plane. If you ever wanted to see government and volunteers working well together to get something done, you should have been at BWI this week.
    Last edited by duanedude1; 07/27/2006 at 10:31 AM.
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