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  1. Micael's Avatar
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    #221  
    Quote Originally Posted by clulup
    How? The Hezbollah terrorists will just leave the neighborhood and start over once the bombs have stopped falling.
    Deal with them? How? You can't handle Iraq, how would you "deal with" Syria and Iran?
    Huh? I can't? Ah well, lets just quit and wait for em to come here.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  2. Micael's Avatar
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    #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    The problem is that now that Hizbollah is a political party sharing power, they are the government. The 70% of Lebanese people who are not Shi'ites probably do want to stop Hizbollah... especially the ones whose border towns have been co-opted by them.
    Lebanon isn't the key. Syria and Iran fund Hezbollah.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  3.    #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Lebanon isn't the key. Syria and Iran fund Hezbollah.
    Absolutely. I'm just saying that its not a matter of extracting Hizbollah from Lebanon. It requires filling parliament seats, replacing the social funding that Hizbollah provides, etc. This is the price Lebanon pays for electing members of an organization long known to be funded by foreign powers. Ultimately it will be for the best but it won't come without a price.
  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Absolutely. I'm just saying that its not a matter of extracting Hizbollah from Lebanon. It requires filling parliament seats, replacing the social funding that Hizbollah provides, etc. This is the price Lebanon pays for electing members of an organization long known to be funded by foreign powers. Ultimately it will be for the best but it won't come without a price.
    Agreed!
  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #225  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Absolutely. I'm just saying that its not a matter of extracting Hizbollah from Lebanon. It requires filling parliament seats, replacing the social funding that Hizbollah provides, etc. This is the price Lebanon pays for electing members of an organization long known to be funded by foreign powers. Ultimately it will be for the best but it won't come without a price.
    Great analysis at the grass level. Now lets go up to 10,000 feet. This conflict has been ongoing for over 2000 years. The real question is do we want a nuclear weapon equipped Iran that is sworn to and bent on the destruction on Israel (and thats just to start). Thats what's actually going on. Hezbollah attacked out of the blue, 'apparently', and at exactly the time when Iran was supposed to back down from its stance on nuclear weapons development. In other words, this is a planned diversion. At the 10,000 foot view its obvious that the real question is at what point do we confront Iran directly, and not how to handle the Hezbollah problem.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  6. TomUps's Avatar
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    #226  
    Clearly Iran and Syria are behind Hezbollahs actions. I doubt however Iran would want to get directly involved in the action though. Im sure they realize Israels first target would be their nuclear reactors and weapons program (if you think its a peacefull program your crazy). If they lost that, they would lose almost all their leverage.
  7.    #227  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    At the 10,000 foot view its obvious that the real question is at what point do we confront Iran directly, and not how to handle the Hezbollah problem.
    Soon. One could look at the situation and say that we're mired down in two other conflicts. However, one could look at the same situation and say that we're soon going to be poised to take Iran from the air and both borders if necessary.
  8. Micael's Avatar
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    #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Soon. One could look at the situation and say that we're mired down in two other conflicts. However, one could look at the same situation and say that we're soon going to be poised to take Iran from the air and both borders if necessary.
    The first view may prove to be 'academic' if we're forced into action. I'm not personally comfortable with a nuke armed Iran.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  9.    #229  
    Iran's Hizbollah says ready to attack US, Israel

    "We have 2,000 volunteers who have registered since last year," said Iranian Hizbollah's spokesman Mojtaba Bigdeli, speaking by telephone from the central seminary city of Qom.

    "They have been trained and they can become fully armed. We are ready to dispatch them to every corner of the world to jeopardise
    Israel and America's interests. We are only waiting for the Supreme Leader's green light to take action. If America wants to ignite World War Three ... we welcome it," he said.
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    You are going to have to break down your references...Im not getting them

    If I assume what you are saying is that the Israeli's are already using terrorist tactics, then the question then becomes "Should they use even more extreme terrorist tactics?"

    DAT: if your answer is that they already are, then do you have a problem with the guided ordinance being used in civilian populated areas that are safe harbor's for pockets of terrorists?
    King David Hotel Bombing


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  11. #231  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Can you imagine if the US was attacked and our soldiers were taken? Do you think the overwhelming outcry would be to cease fire without getting our soldiers back...I dont think so.
    Care to comment on the thousands of Palestinians held without charge for months at a time and questioned, even tortured, by the Israeli gov't ??
  12. #232  
    Thanks. I looked over the links you provided and have some more questions for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The attack was initially ordered by David Ben Gurion, who was in the United States. Both Ben Gurion and Menachem Begin, head of the Irgun, would later become Israeli Prime Ministers. The attack was commanded by Yosef Avni and Yisrael Levi.
    So because they later became Israeli Prime Ministers, that supports the inference that Israel is using terrorist attacks...and didnt this happen almost 50 years ago?
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Ayyash was assassinated, allegedly by the Israeli security forces in 1996, following a massive manhunt. A relative of one of Ayyash's fellow Hamas militants passed him a cell phone. It exploded when Ayyash was using it, killing him instantly. Reportedly, 100,000 people attended his funeral. Israel did not confirm or deny its role in killing Ayyash.
    Allegedly. Im not saying it wasnt, but you made it sound from your earlier post that it was a definite that Israel was employing terrorist tactics. I wouldnt come to that conclusion based on the links you posted...but thanks for posting the references.
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  13. #233  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    Thanks. I looked over the links you provided and have some more questions for you.
    So because they later became Israeli Prime Ministers, that supports the inference that Israel is using terrorist attacks...and didnt this happen almost 50 years ago?
    Allegedly. Im not saying it wasnt, but you made it sound from your earlier post that it was a definite that Israel was employing terrorist tactics. I wouldnt come to that conclusion based on the links you posted...but thanks for posting the references.
    Um yea. Ever see Munich?
  14. #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Um yea. Ever see Munich?
    I haven't but I plan on seeing it when it comes out on DVD.
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  15. #235  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I haven't but I plan on seeing it when it comes out on DVD.
    Gawd-awful. Spielberg could have easily left 40 minutes on the cutting room floor.

    Also, something Spielberg does not allude to is that the Israeli gov't went ahead and threw in a few more people it wanted dead on the Munich hit-list even though they had nothing to do with it.
  16. TomUps's Avatar
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    #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Care to comment on the thousands of Palestinians held without charge for months at a time and questioned, even tortured, by the Israeli gov't ??
    You care to comment on the fact that the Palestinian goverment is run by a terrorist organization that targets and kills children?

    You care to comment on the fact that Hezbollah has caused more American deaths than any other terrorist organization besides al-qaeda?

    Also, something Spielberg does not allude to is that the Israeli gov't went ahead and threw in a few more people it wanted dead on the Munich hit-list even though they had nothing to do with it.
    a few more people with plenty of blood on their hands (however, mistakes were made). Can you imagine where we might be today if we would have avenged the marine barracks bombings like the Israelis did munich. There would probably be no Hezbollah.

    How anybody can condemn bringing justice to the munich killers is amazing.
    Last edited by TomUps; 07/18/2006 at 03:34 PM.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    You care to comment on the fact that the Palestinian goverment is run by a terrorist organization that targets and kills children?

    You care to comment on the fact that Hezbollah has caused more American deaths than any other terrorist organization besides al-qaeda?
    Typical.

    a few more people with plenty of blood on their hands (however, mistakes were made). Can you imagine where we might be today if we would have avenged the marine barracks bombings like the Israelis did munich. There would probably be no Hezbollah.
    Yea, it turned out so well for the Israelis.

    How anybody can condemn bringing justice to the munich killers is amazing.
    That was not justice. That was vengence. Until both sides of this conflict understand the difference, they are doomed.
  18. TomUps's Avatar
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    #238  
    Typical.
    But so very true. You seem to forget the events of munich were started by innocent athletes being taken and killed. And you seem to forget Hezbollah started this mini war, and you seem to love complaining about the Israeli goverment without mentioning the Palestinian goverment is an actual terrorist organization.

    Yea, it turned out so well for the Israelis.
    Yeah, those terrorists never killed anymore Israelis ever again. I think it worked out pretty good.

    That was not justice. That was vengence. Until both sides of this conflict understand the difference, they are doomed.
    And sometimes the only way to serve justice, is with alittle bit of vegence. Its funny that you consider Israel to be the brutal side when it comes to munich. I suppose you feel the war we brought to the taliban and al-qaeda to be vegence also.

    I would like to see peace in that region during my lifetime. As a new parent, I can say it makes me very sad when I see children dying on both sides.
    Last edited by TomUps; 07/18/2006 at 04:08 PM.
  19.    #239  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    That was not justice. That was vengence. Until both sides of this conflict understand the difference, they are doomed.
    Possibly. But then why do you alway mention something bad Israel did when people talk about what Hizbullah or Hamas is doing--as if to call it tit for tat?
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Possibly. But then why do you alway mention something bad Israel did when people talk about what Hizbullah or Hamas is doing--as if to call it tit for tat?
    The fact that Israel is the GREATLY superior military power puts the onus on them to utilize restraint and the higher ground when seeking justice AND in the overall conflict to seek a path to peaceful coexistence.

    Currently and in most of their past, they just take the role of bully.

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