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  1. NRG
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       #1  
    This should be interesting to watch.


    Source: Reuters

    EXCLUSIVE-Iraq to ask UN to end US immunity after rape case

    BAGHDAD, July 10 (Reuters) - Iraq will ask the United Nations to end immunity from local law for U.S. troops, the human rights minister said on Monday, as the military named five soldiers charged in a rape-murder case that has outraged Iraqis.

    In an interview a week after Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki demanded a review of foreign troops' immunity, Wigdan Michael said work on it was now under way and a request could be ready by next month to go to the U.N. Security Council, under whose mandate U.S.-led forces are in control of Iraq.

    "We're very serious about this," she said, blaming a lack of enforcement of U.S. military law in the past for encouraging soldiers to commit crimes against Iraqi civilians, such as the alleged rape and murder of a teenager and killing of her family.

    "We formed a committee last week to prepare reports and put it before the cabinet in three weeks. After that, Maliki will present it to the Security Council. We will ask them to lift the immunity," Michael said. "If we don't get that, then we'll ask for an effective role in the investigations that are going on.

    "The Iraqi government must have a role."
  2. #2  
    Just talk. It'll never happen.
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #3  
    If they did the crime, they should pay that country's punishment, and then come home and pay again here. Zero tolerance. Too much at stake.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    If they did the crime, they should pay that country's punishment, and then come home and pay again here. Zero tolerance. Too much at stake.
    Indeed.

    It is sticky, though, to get at determining whether they did the crime.

    I would see using the court-matial similarly to a grand jury. If there is evidence of possible crime, we voluntarily turn them over to face trial in country--without a UN action.

    If the UN rules to lift the immunity and we refuse, we would have to distance ourselves from the UN, making it truly US against the world. If the UN rules and we comply, Accusations would fly fast and furious in every nation wherein we have ro continue to serve.
  5. NRG
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       #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Indeed.

    It is sticky, though, to get at determining whether they did the crime.

    I would see using the court-matial similarly to a grand jury. If there is evidence of possible crime, we voluntarily turn them over to face trial in country--without a UN action.

    If the UN rules to lift the immunity and we refuse, we would have to distance ourselves from the UN, making it truly US against the world. If the UN rules and we comply, Accusations would fly fast and furious in every nation wherein we have ro continue to serve.
    Our immunity is illegal by international law, I believe. Not that, that would deter this admin.
  6. #6  
    While I do feel the occupation/insurgency is a situation which by it's nature lends itself to a soldier dehumanizing the entire population, the extent to which this supposed crime was taken is more reflective of a sociopath/criminal person, who was able to manipulate others. He was the one who murdered and raped according ot reports so far. I find him to be the exception.

    The fact that others would accompany him however is reflective of the poor morale situation.

    edited to add: oh, and I don't believe soldiers should be tried under the laws of the country they are in but rather under military law but it's sticky either way.
  7. Micael's Avatar
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Our immunity is illegal by international law, I believe. Not that, that would deter this admin.
    If they aren't immune, talk about quagmire, the courts would fill up so fast they'd not have room for their own domestic cases. Every US serviceman that farts on a street corner would be brought up on charges.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    If they aren't immune, talk about quagmire, the courts would fill up so fast they'd not have room for their own domestic cases. Every US serviceman that farts on a street corner would be brought up on charges.
    I thought they were throwing flowers at our feet for liberating and bringing them the gift of democracy.
  9. Micael's Avatar
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    #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    I thought they were throwing flowers at our feet for liberating and bringing them the gift of democracy.
    They were, and many still do.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    They were, and many still do.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    If they aren't immune, talk about quagmire, the courts would fill up so fast they'd not have room for their own domestic cases. Every US serviceman that farts on a street corner would be brought up on charges.
    Which only speaks to how impossible this situation is. The whole concept of American Exceptionalism that got us into this mess is flawed.
  12. Micael's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
    I know... I'm corny. I still believe in noble goals along with appreciative and newly freed populations.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    Which only speaks to how impossible this situation is. The whole concept of American Exceptionalism that got us into this mess is flawed.
    Exceptionalism? We're talking logic. Note that we investigate and try our own soldiers. They do the crime, they do the time. They're trying to protect them from unfair charges and punishments.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Exceptionalism? We're talking logic. Note that we investigate and try our own soldiers. They do the crime, they do the time. They're trying to protect them from unfair charges and punishments.
    God, the hypocracy of this position.

    Wouldn't the leader of a foreign government have the right to capture, torture, and imprision indefinitly anyone on earth he suspected of such crimes? Without having to bring charges, or give access to a court?

    Or it is just not imperialism if it is us?
  15. #15  
    by the way, that was irony, fyi
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    God, the hypocracy of this position.

    Wouldn't the leader of a foreign government have the right to capture, torture, and imprision indefinitly anyone on earth he suspected of such crimes? Without having to bring charges, or give access to a court?

    Or it is just not imperialism if it is us?
    I am reading Gore Vidal's Lincoln, written when GWB was in short pants. Not only did Lincoln behave like GWB but he used the same rhetoric to rationalize it.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    I know... I'm corny. I still believe in noble goals along with appreciative and newly freed populations.
    You can believe in nobilty all you want, just don't look at the world through rose colored sunglasses and for every purchase you make think about the population of political dissidents working in the chinese factory you just propped up with your dollar.

    This administration likes to appeal to the black hat/white hat mentality but the world is nothing but shades of grey. Also, if you think of people in Iraq as Iraqis then you have no concept of what has happened and is happening there.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    I know... I'm corny. I still believe in noble goals along with appreciative and newly freed populations.
    We would all like the privilege of being judged on our motives while judging everyone else on their behavior.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by whmurray
    We would all like the privilege of being judged on our motives while judging everyone else on their behavior.
    I'd be happy with that. Lets do it.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    God, the hypocracy of this position.

    Wouldn't the leader of a foreign government have the right to capture, torture, and imprision indefinitly anyone on earth he suspected of such crimes? Without having to bring charges, or give access to a court?

    Or it is just not imperialism if it is us?
    No. No. You cleary miss the point. The leader of a foreign govenment cannot do those things.

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