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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    A lot of "intelligent" people disagreed about slavery.
    And what does that tell you?
  2. #122  
    "You don't need gays or polygamists to blame for the decline in the institution of marriage."

    -I never blamed gays or polygamists for the decline of marriage. How they can they destory something they can't participate in?

    "The folks responsible are:The "normal" hetrosexuals who live together, produce children out of marriage, marry and divorce at the drop of a hat."

    -Agree
    -My point is that marriage is broken and is in desperate need of fixing….SO, why focus on something that will only confuse the issue even more. While it is of utter importance to teach our children respect and tolerance how is it helpful to teach them that two men or women can effectively replace a mom and a dad?

    "Why doesn't anyone restrict the behavior of "normal hetro's"?"

    -In my opinion "normal hetro's" SHOULD be restricted. I believe that making marriage counseling a requirement would be very beneficial to not only the couples getting married, but the potential children they bring into the world. Although you would still have divorce and family issues, at least it wouldn't hurt.

    "All this backlash against gays is because of the collective guilt of the "normal" folks who are doing their bit to destroy marriage."


    -While I am saddened by the state of marriage, I don't feel guilty since I'm currently not destroying it. Again.... since NOBODY is blaming homosexuals for destroying marriage (because they can't get married) how could I be back lashing against them?
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Yes. That's why do the things that will improve marriage, not things that side-track from the main problem.

    Make it extremely inconvenient to cohabitate out of wedlock.. and to divorce. I don't mean through laws, but through societal pressure and values.

    Why don't we see ANY steps to address the real threat to marriage? How many marriages end in divorce? How many people doe we know personally who are in their 2nd (or higher) marriage? or living together?
    I agree with everything you've said here.

    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Doesn't that hurt children FAR MORE than a gay couple next door?
    This is where we part ways. In the effort to try to make things better with respect to marriage why should we introduce something just because it "isn't as bad" as the worst of the current situation?
  4. #124  
    Tell us about your feelings on the fitness of homosexuals as parents hoovs.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Marriage existed before the laws.

    Hmmm, that's another type of precedence.
    That appears to be the point of the NY ruling. Marriage is an ancient institution--preceding, as you said, any legal institution in existence today. But same-sex marriage isn't. In fact, it is a relatively recent innovation. Even in India, where in some tribes marrying animals is seen as a way to ward off evil spirits, same sex marriage is believed to have little support.
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Tell us about your feelings on the fitness of homosexuals as parents hoovs.
    lol
  7. #127  
    "Do you think your grandchildren will be proud of your words against homosexuals when you are gone? Will we come to believe that it was wrong now? Wrong then? Wrong always?"

    This is not a valid argument, since it is impossible for you to know how my grandchildren will feel about the morality of homosexuality? Since you are so good at ......predictive mind reading... why don't you tell everyone what my grandchildren are going to feel about abortion.

    "Doesn't that hurt children FAR MORE than a gay couple next door?"


    My issue is not with the "gays next door" (they have a right to be gay and to live next door to me); the issue is with gays raising children in place of a mom and dad.

    "Do you take it at face value when they say it is lofty principles about polluting the sanctity of the institution of marriage? Or do you think it masks an underlying hatred?"

    -Not only is this a mind-blowingly original argument, but you are implying that EVERYONE who disagrees with gay marriage has an underlying hatred for homosexuals. I must say that your accusations are extremely “tolerant” of my personal beliefs. I wonder if YOUR grandchildren will share the same “tolerance” as you.


    So can anybody explain to me the difference between legalizing polygamy or same-sex marriage? Being that nobody here has effectively done so YET.
    Last edited by aairman23; 07/06/2006 at 10:38 PM.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Tell us about your feelings on the fitness of homosexuals as parents hoovs.
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    lol
    Exactly.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23
    "Do you think your grandchildren will be proud of your words against homosexuals when you are gone? Will we come to believe that it was wrong now? Wrong then? Wrong always?"

    This is not a valid argument, since it is impossible for you to know how my grandchildren will feel about the morality of homosexuality? Since you are so good at ......predictive mind reading... why don't you tell everyone what my grandchildren are going to feel about abortion.

    "Doesn't that hurt children FAR MORE than a gay couple next door?"


    My issue is not with the "gays next door" (they have a right to be gay and to live next door to me); the issue is with gays raising children in place of a mom and dad.

    "Do you take it at face value when they say it is lofty principles about polluting the sanctity of the institution of marriage? Or do you think it masks an underlying hatred?"

    -Not only is this a mind-blowingly original argument, but you are implying that EVERYONE who disagrees with gay marriage has an underlying hatred for homosexuals. I must say that your accusations are extremely “tolerant” of my personal beliefs. I wonder if YOUR grandchildren will share the same “tolerance” as you.


    So can anybody explain to me the difference between legalizing polygamy or same-sex marriage? Being that nobody here has effectively done so YET.
    It is not an argument, it is a question.

    Really? What is it about your highly tolerent views that make you say gay families make poor parents?

    It's not an argument, it's a question. What accustations?

    You are comparing gay couples to polygamists now? How tolerant of you.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23
    why don't you tell everyone what my grandchildren are going to feel about abortion.
    You mean in the future when in vitro fertilization and genetic engineering explodes, as well as stem cell research, complete mapping of the human genome, genetic diseases selected for before birth, custom babies that cure their siblings of diseases? Hearts and lungs grown from your own cells, and dividing embryos in test tubes and harvesting the stemm cells to wipe out cancer and genetic disease on earth?

    What do you think they will look back and say about abortion? Be honest in your answer.
  11. #131  
    And since you are asking, there is no need to consult a crystal ball. You can ask the next generation directly to their face. Try tuning in to MTV once in a while.
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by aairman23
    My issue is not with the "gays next door" (they have a right to be gay and to live next door to me); the issue is with gays raising children in place of a mom and dad.
    Let's worry about children raised by parents who bicker and fight and divorce .. or worse yet.. never marry. This is a far more common and destructive situation. These kids are less likely to respect the institution of marriage.

    How would the society (especially the "conservative, family values" crowd) fix that problem? Why don't we see a "crusade" against such terrible (and common) hetro behavior from this "concerned about the moral breakdown caused by gays" group?
    --
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  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Let's worry about children raised by parents who bicker and fight and divorce .. or worse yet.. never marry. This is a far more common and destructive situation. These kids are less likely to respect the institution of marriage.

    How would the society (especially the "conservative, family values" crowd) fix that problem? Why don't we see a "crusade" against such terrible (and common) hetro behavior from this "concerned about the moral breakdown caused by gays" group?
    aprasad, with all due respect, if you haven't heard social Conservatives rail against divorce and having children out of wedlock then you haven't been listening. Of course you won't hear them talk much about "legislation" to fix the problem because most Conservatives don't want more legislation. But there is much talk about the state of hetero marriage within social Conservative circles.

    However, with regard to same sex marriage, we're not talking about leaving the status quo. We're not talking about "leaving the gays alone". Most Conservatives would be just fine with "leaving gays alone". We're talking about NOT taking the action to make same sex marriage legal.
  14. #134  
    OK. What's the action plan to address the hetros' attack on the institutions of marriage and family?

    (.. besides gay-bashing, that is ..)
    --
    Aloke
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    #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Where does it state in the Constitution you have a right to marry? No where to my knowledge.
    So if not the Constitution, what gives a man and a woman the right to marry?
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  16. Micael's Avatar
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    #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060706/...s/gay_marriage

    A most interesting story and a surprising one - a judge that believes the people have the right to say yes or no.

    Ben
    More like a judge that knows how to duck a firestorm.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  17. NRG
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    #137  
    Isn't there another thread on this already.
  18. NRG
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    #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas


    Jim Crow was the name of the racial caste system which operated primarily, but not exclusively in southern and border states, between 1877 and the mid-1960s. Jim Crow was more than a series of rigid anti-Black laws. It was a way of life. Under Jim Crow, African Americans were relegated to the status of second class citizens. Jim Crow represented the legitimization of anti-Black racism. Many Christian ministers and theologians taught that Whites were the Chosen people, Blacks were cursed to be servants, and God supported racial segregation. Craniologists, eugenicists, phrenologists, and Social Darwinists, at every educational level, buttressed the belief that Blacks were innately intellectually and culturally inferior to Whites. Pro-segregation politicians gave eloquent speeches on the great danger of integration: the mongrelization of the White race. Newspaper and magazine writers routinely referred to Blacks as niggers, coons, and darkies; and worse, their articles reinforced anti-Black stereotypes. Even children's games portrayed Blacks as inferior beings (see "From Hostility to Reverence: 100 Years of African-American Imagery in Games"). All major societal institutions reflected and supported the oppression of Blacks.
    There is your argument againist majority rule. I think it has to do w/ Inalienable rights, no matter what party is in charge.
  19. Micael's Avatar
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    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    There is your argument againist majority rule. I think it has to do w/ Inalienable rights, no matter what party is in charge.
    agree. all sorts of wrong arguments are thrown out as smoke screen. bottom line its about the right to pursue happiness. If marriage is legal for any, then it should be legal for all.
    The Law of Logical Argument: Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    agree. all sorts of wrong arguments are thrown out as smoke screen. bottom line its about the right to pursue happiness. If marriage is legal for any, then it should be legal for all.
    Wow Michael, I have 2 say, this is evidence that you are not an idealog.
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