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  1.    #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Of corse he "knows it" because hobbes told him.
    Yup....I made up all the documents. I wrote over a million docs in arabic, planted them in Iraq to be found just after the fall of Saddam. Secured them in a warehouse in Qatar. Scanned them to be released to the public. Made ABC, MSNBC, Fox News, Wall Street Journal, The New Yorker, USA Today, etc... report on them. And then I linked to those sources here in this thread which was then in reality only quoting myself!!!!

    You caught me...I confess!

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Which I suspect is the reason for hobbes postong his daily "newly uncovered bombshell revelations" here.
    I really do appreciate your non interest in new information about events now several years old. If you are not interested in the release of the documents over the last 10-12 months or so, then simply skip them. Many on both the left and right of the spectrum are though.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 07/12/2006 at 03:23 PM.
  2.    #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    As far as documentation, US intelligence as of last month believes that there was no organized effort by Sadaam to preserve these weapons.
    I believe this will add a little possible insight into this very good question from the article in post #159:

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    The Republican chairman of the U.S. House committee with jurisdiction over foreign intelligence, conceded Tuesday that the many documents discovered by the U.S. military in Iraq following the toppling of Saddam Hussein's regime are no longer a priority for most intelligence experts.

    Those documents....included memos containing the letterhead of the Iraqi Intelligence Service and revealing Saddam's purchase of mustard gas and anthrax - both considered weapons of mass destruction - as recently as the summer of 2000 and his extensive ties to al Qaeda.

    ---------------

    Hoekstra, chairman of the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, said many intelligence experts consider the information irrelevant. "Everything that I'm working on within the intelligence community on pre-war Iraq and better understanding pre-war Iraq, tells me it is no longer a priority for the intelligence community," he said.
    Here is what I have shared as to my view of this potential paradox:

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    As for the the docs and the CIA, I think there is concern on all sides of the fence, i.e. the admin, the Intel community, etc... I think the Admin is gun shy to go toe to toe about the CIA previous and current analysis due to past situations and current political environment.

    I think the CIA is gun shy of the docs because they are scared it might prove how wrong they really were.

    Here is what the Wall Street Journal had to say in conjuncture with the Weekly Standard Magazine's report:

    A less benign explanation for the Bush Administration's lethargy is that its officials don't want to challenge the prewar CIA orthodoxy that the "secular" Saddam would never cavort with "religious" al Qaeda. They've seen what happened to others--"Scooter" Libby, Douglas Feith, John Bolton--who dared to question CIA analyses. Mr. Hayes reports that the Pentagon intelligence chief, Stephen Cambone, has been a particular obstacle to energetic document inspection.

    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    This makes sense - why would Sadaam expend effort to stockpile stuff that already went bad?
    Again this is assuming he declared how he stored the materials to show the deterioration of the materials because if stored properly it they can last for multiple decades.
  3. cardio's Avatar
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    #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    As far as documentation, US intelligence as of last month believes that there was no organized effort by Sadaam to preserve these weapons.

    "Intelligence officials said the munitions were found in ones, twos and maybe slightly larger collections over the past couple of years. One official conceded that these pre-Gulf War weapons did not pose a threat to the U.S. military before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. They were not maintained or part of any organized program run by Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein. There is no evidence that insurgents have found the chemical munitions."
    http://www.theconservativevoice.com/...l?mi=D8IDIE300

    This makes sense - why would Sadaam expend effort to stockpile stuff that already went bad?
    That still does not justify the fact that there have been over 500 confirmed chemical weapons found in Iraq since the 2003 invasion. All of these weapons were supposed to be destroyed, not stored in underground bunkers, not left for terrorist to find and develop a roadside bomb that injured 2 soldiers when the blew the device up (some would have you believe that the troops were right there when it exploded but an Explosive Ordinance Disposal trained team detonated the device from a distance) from a distance considerred safe for conventional weapons. Can you really accept that an individual with as much power as Saddam had would not require a close count on his precious weapons, especially in light of the hide and seek he played for 10+ years with the UN.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  4. #164  
    daT,

    you never answered my question. What should Israel do about the daily Kassam rocket attacks coming from the Gaza strip?
  5. #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    daT,

    you never answered my question. What should Israel do about the daily Kassam rocket attacks coming from the Gaza strip?
    If you want peace work for justice.

    That is the answer to your question.
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    If you want peace work for justice.

    That is the answer to your question.
    So, is evicting the Jewish settlers of Gush Katif and withdrawing from Gaza not working for justice? Where’s the reciprocity from Hamas?
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    So, is evicting the Jewish settlers of Gush Katif and withdrawing from Gaza not working for justice? Where’s the reciprocity from Hamas?
    How long were those lands occupied?
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    How long were those lands occupied?
    Does it matter? How far do you want to go back? Do you want to talk about how long they were occupied by the British, the Turks, the Arabs? The point is that the attacks have actually increased since Israel pulled out of the strip.
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Does it matter? How far do you want to go back? Do you want to talk about how long they were occupied by the British, the Turks, the Arabs? The point is that the attacks have actually increased since Israel pulled out of the strip.
    And what condition were these properties returned to their rightful owners?
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Can you really accept that an individual with as much power as Saddam had would not require a close count on his precious weapons, especially in light of the hide and seek he played for 10+ years with the UN.
    It really does not matter so much to me whatever kind of game he thinks he was playing or you think he was playing or what you think his intentions were.

    The bottom line was that putting the squeeze on him during the 90s resulted in his weapons becoming degraded and he was prevented from making new ones.

    Before the UN strategy there were dangerous weapons, after the strategy there were no dangerous weapons. And this happened all even before we invaded Iraq.

    What is so bad or difficult to understand about that?
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    And what condition were these properties returned to their rightful owners?
    With infrastructure... something that the Israelis built.
  12. TomUps's Avatar
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    #172  
    If you want peace work for justice.
    So blowing up children is working for justice?


    How long were those lands occupied?
    So Hamas is allowed to commit terrorist activities inside Israel for how long? How many more children is Hamas permitted to kill under your plan?

    And what condition were these properties returned to their rightful owners?
    Same answer, property condition allows Hamas to keep killing?
  13. cardio's Avatar
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    #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    It really does not matter so much to me whatever kind of game he thinks he was playing or you think he was playing or what you think his intentions were.

    The bottom line was that putting the squeeze on him during the 90s resulted in his weapons becoming degraded and he was prevented from making new ones.

    Before the UN strategy there were dangerous weapons, after the strategy there were no dangerous weapons. And this happened all even before we invaded Iraq.

    What is so bad or difficult to understand about that?
    He still had the weapons, we have found over 500 of them. Many documents and tapes that are being translated show he was still in the market and actively purchasing the equipment and supplies. The UN failed to locate these weapons after 10+ years. Did they reduce the threat, yes, did they eliminate it NO. Did they force him to comply with the mandates they set forth, again no.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    With infrastructure... something that the Israelis built.
    And how many other properties are still occupied while the previous owners are within visible range of occupiers farming the olive grove that hasd been in their family for centuries?
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    And how many other properties are still occupied while the previous owners are within visible range of occupiers farming the olive grove that hasd been in their family for centuries?
    So its all or nothing then. Right?
  16. TomUps's Avatar
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    #176  
    And how many other properties are still occupied while the previous owners are within visible range of occupiers farming the olive grove that hasd been in their family for centuries?
    So, using your example, I guess it would be ok for a native american to totally savage your family to death. After all, it was once their land.

    I guess you will only be satisfied if the jews leave Israel entirely. Gaza and the Westbank are not enough. Heres alittle hint though, its never going to happen.
    Maybe the Palestinians should take your advice......"If you want peace work for justice".
  17. TomUps's Avatar
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    #177  
    I am not distressed or defensive, I am HAPPY that there are no dangerous WMDs in Iraq. This is a GOOD THING for AMERICA.
    I agree. Let me add though......

    I am happy one of the most ruthless dictators is human history has been removed from power and prevented from continuing killing, torturing, and oppressing potentially millions of other people. I am indeed gratefull.
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    He still had the weapons, we have found over 500 of them. Many documents and tapes that are being translated show he was still in the market and actively purchasing the equipment and supplies. The UN failed to locate these weapons after 10+ years. Did they reduce the threat, yes, did they eliminate it NO. Did they force him to comply with the mandates they set forth, again no.
    You keep ignoring the obvious. The chemicals in the weapons are gone, they are not a threat.

    Here we go one more time, and I will not cite the references yet again, you and everyone following the thread has seen them several times now.

    1) Our intelligence and weapons experts after years of searching cannot find any hazardous chemical weapons in Iraq.

    2) According to our weapons experts, the chemical weapons that were present before the Gulf war were either destroyed by Sadaam or degraded during the UN sanctions in the 90s, well before we invaded Iraq. There is no evidence AT ALL of any chemical weapons made after the Gulf War.

    3) The translated documents are interesting, but Hobbes will be the first to admit they are just that for now, interesting, they are not facts. Was Sadaam researching into new weapons technology? Maybe, that is a matter of debate. I look forward to learning more about this.

    4) There is no reason to be distressed or defensive about this. Me, I am HAPPY that there are no dangerous WMDs in Iraq. This is a GOOD THING for AMERICA.

    5) It is not GW Bush's Iraq invasion, but rather it is the UN, the Clinton administration policy and the first President Bush's 1991 Gulf war which deserves credit for this.
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    So, using your example, I guess it would be ok for a native american to totally savage your family to death. After all, it was once their land.

    I guess you will only be satisfied if the jews leave Israel entirely. Gaza and the Westbank are not enough. Heres alittle hint though, its never going to happen.
    Maybe the Palestinians should take your advice......"If you want peace work for justice".
    Interesting native american analogy, but I think you have it a little backwards. Pushing aside the palestinians would have been more like pushing the American's in to the reservations and handing over the United States to the Native Americans.

    Give the tanks and air craft carriers to the enemy, and the Sean Hannity crowd would be the first ones with bombs strapped to their chests, only we would call them patriots.
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    I agree. Let me add though......

    I am happy one of the most ruthless dictators is human history has been removed from power and prevented from continuing killing, torturing, and oppressing potentially millions of other people. I am indeed gratefull.
    I do not think it was worth our American lives and billions of dollars just to get him. But that is water under the bridge, regardless of that, it is good for Iraq he is out of power, hope they finish the trial and hang him. He is scum.
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