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  1.    #1  
    Brent
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  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    sigh
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #3  
    Silliness. He tried to get the evidence thrown out because the police didn't give him a heads up so he could flush it.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Silliness. He tried to get the evidence thrown out because the police didn't give him a heads up so he could flush it.
    That may be the case, but wait until IRS believes you're going to destroy your illegal tax records, a warrant is issued, and they bust through your door in front of your neighbors - then I'll bet it will be a case of "it depends upon who's ox is being gored."
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  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Silliness. He tried to get the evidence thrown out because the police didn't give him a heads up so he could flush it.
    Who pays for the broken doors when the warrant doesn't turn up anything?
  6. #6  
    Did they have a warrant? Isn't that the important thing? What if someone is on the can? Do you propose police have to wait for him to wipe before coming in?
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Silliness. He tried to get the evidence thrown out because the police didn't give him a heads up so he could flush it.
    This is example of the Exclusionary Rule. (If police do an illegal search that violates the 4th and 5th amendment, then any evidence obtained from that search is excluded if the defendant files a motion to suppress.)

    Whats interesting is that there is no exclusionary rule in the constitution but it was created as a way to 'encourage' police from not violating the 4th and 5th amendments. Some argue that there is no need for the exclusionary rule if our real goal in a criminal trial is to have all the facts and evidence in front of a judge and jury to decide the case.
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    This is example of the Exclusionary Rule. (If police do an illegal search that violates the 4th and 5th amendment, then any evidence obtained from that search is excluded if the defendant files a motion to suppress.)

    Whats interesting is that there is no exclusionary rule in the constitution but it was created as a way to 'encourage' police from not violating the 4th and 5th amendments. Some argue that there is no need for the exclusionary rule if our real goal in a criminal trial is to have all the facts and evidence in front of a judge and jury to decide the case.
    I haven't read the ruling, but it would seem like the best approach is to have 2 types of warrants. That way, if it's a situation where there's high risk of evidence tampering or danger, you could okay knocking down a door. Otherwise, keep the process the way it was.

    Can't you just see it coming. An officer may get shot because the person in the home couldn't verify that it was the police at the door. There are neighborhoods where you don't open the door to anyone except the police. And you need to see some proof. Seems risky. Just saying "Police" and then kicking the door in could get you attacked by a dog or shot. People don't trust just what you say, anyone can yell police.
  9. #9  
    If you need to brush up on how this works, Law and Order is in summer re-runs
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  10. #10  
    All I have to say is if anyone breaks down my door, they will be shot. I wonder how long this so called "law" will be there if they start seeing more police dying. I have nothing against the police but again I do have a shotgun waiting.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    If you need to brush up on how this works, Law and Order is in summer re-runs
    They lost me when when roles became revolving doors.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I haven't read the ruling, but it would seem like the best approach is to have 2 types of warrants. That way, if it's a situation where there's high risk of evidence tampering or danger, you could okay knocking down a door. Otherwise, keep the process the way it was.
    If an independent magistrate says there is probable cause, then that is what gets the cops the warrant...having to have a second warrant for not having to knock would be difficult because police wouldnt know (at least not consistantly) if they would need it when they go to serve warrant #1.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Can't you just see it coming. An officer may get shot because the person in the home couldn't verify that it was the police at the door. There are neighborhoods where you don't open the door to anyone except the police. And you need to see some proof. Seems risky. Just saying "Police" and then kicking the door in could get you attacked by a dog or shot. People don't trust just what you say, anyone can yell police.
    Police would likely try to find out if the defendant had weapons registered to him, try to see where the person is in the house prior to going in the front door, whether they had a dog, etc.

    I can't imagine a cop that would think it smart to serve the warrant without knowing anything about the defendant.
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  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hizd4Life
    All I have to say is if anyone breaks down my door, they will be shot. I wonder how long this so called "law" will be there if they start seeing more police dying. I have nothing against the police but again I do have a shotgun waiting.
    You would have to be ready for them. They tend to arrive when you least expect it. They try to find out where you are when they go to serve it and if they know your armed, they usually will do a 'shock' entry.

    Unless your extremely well trained, most react in a very consistant and predictable way.
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  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    You would have to be ready for them. They tend to arrive when you least expect it. They try to find out where you are when they go to serve it and if they know your armed, they usually will do a 'shock' entry.

    Unless your extremely well trained, most react in a very consistant and predictable way.
    Right on, T2!

    I love all these armchair Rambos who spew this stuff. Okay, you're going to shoot a cop because he breaks down your door. Good luck! Maybe you'll come out alive, but you'll more than likely have a few more orifices when they gurney your *** out of your fortress.

    So, assume that you're innocent. Cops break in, you shoot. At best, now you're facing charges for aggravated assualt, deadly weapons, assault on a Peace Officer, resisting arrest, etc...at worst, you're dead. Seems smart to me.
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  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    So, assume that you're innocent. Cops break in, you shoot. At best, now you're facing charges for aggravated assualt, deadly weapons, assault on a Peace Officer, resisting arrest, etc...at worst, you're dead. Seems smart to me.
    If you're innocent, why would you assume a cop is kicking in your door?
    Wouldn't you think it was a bad guy?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    If you're innocent, why would you assume a cop is kicking in your door?
    Wouldn't you think it was a bad guy?
    I'm thinking hearing "Police, Open the door!!!" might be the first clue. And then seeing all the black and whites outside would be the second clue. But go ahead, fire away! I'm a believer in Darwinism.
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  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    I'm thinking hearing "Police, Open the door!!!" might be the first clue. And then seeing all the black and whites outside would be the second clue. But go ahead, fire away! I'm a believer in Darwinism.
    Why would you say "Police, Open the door!!!", if you planned to kick the door in 2 seconds later?
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    If you're innocent, why would you assume a cop is kicking in your door?
    Wouldn't you think it was a bad guy?
    Nice train of thought but it wouldnt get you very far.

    Remember, cops can get a warrant for probable cause. If you have a son/daughter/friend who deals drugs or was perceived to deal drugs, that along with some other info might be enough to get a warrant. My point is that even if you are innocent, you won't be able to use that as a defense to shooting a cop who has legal permission (via the warrant) to enter your property to conduct the search.

    I know what your point is...what if its not a cop and they bust down my door? Can't I shoot them? The answer is maybe. You generally cant use deadly force to protect property. You would have to prove to a jury that you reasonably thought this person was breaking in the house to cause you death or serious bodily harm. That's not a slam dunk without knowing more about why the person broke in your door.

    [disclaimer: Im a law student...please dont rely on anything I say. This is only my personal opinion. ]
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  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Why would you say "Police, Open the door!!!", if you planned to kick the door in 2 seconds later?
    I think the courts prior to this decision interpreted the 4th amendment as requiring the police to give you a reasonable opportunity to let them in without them crashing the door (obviously depends on the type of warrant).

    One of the points of the 4th amendment is to prevent 'unreasonable' searches and seizures. If they have a warrant to look for an item and have no reason to believe you will resist or are a felon with violent history, why not give you the chance to let them in without causing property damage?
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  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by t2gungho
    I think the courts prior to this decision interpreted the 4th amendment as requiring the police to give you a reasonable opportunity to let them in without them crashing the door (obviously depends on the type of warrant).

    One of the points of the 4th amendment is to prevent 'unreasonable' searches and seizures. If they have a warrant to look for an item and have no reason to believe you will resist or are a felon with violent history, why not give you the chance to let them in without causing property damage?
    Ok, and now that the Supreme court has redifined the 4th amendment, Why would the police shout "Police, Open the door!!!", if they were allowed to kick the door in 2 seconds later?
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