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  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Another tolerant liberal, willing to fight for his ideas in an open forum.

    As for help, I suggest the yellow pages. Look under, "counselling"...
    And what is that supposed to mean?
    I hope you werent trying to make a personal attack here..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  2. #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    And what is that supposed to mean?
    I hope you werent trying to make a personal attack here..
    I think he was suggesting that he may need professional help. There is nothing wrong with needing help.
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    I think he was suggesting that he may need professional help. There is nothing wrong with needing help.
    If you need that there is nothing wrong with it, however if somebody suggested to me I needed it, without anything backing that up, I'd see it as a flame..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    If you need that there is nothing wrong with it, however if somebody suggested to me I needed it, without anything backing that up, I'd see it as a flame..
    I know I was just being dry
  5. #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    I know I was just being dry
    I thought it was funny. Iíve gotten caught up in the heat of a debate and become sensitive to any comment made by my opponent. I'll try not take every comment personal if everyone else tries to do the same?
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    I know I was just being dry
    ok

    Next time try to use a smilley so others know as well, its very easy to be misread online..
    <IMG WIDTH="200" HEIGHT="50" SRC=http://www.visorcentral.com/images/visorcentral.gif> (ex)VisorCentral Discussion Moderator
    Do files get embarrassed when they get unzipped?
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    ok

    Next time try to use a smilley so others know as well, its very easy to be misread online..
    If I used a smiley it wouldn't be dry... ( )
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    You accusing me of being illeterate is not helping your cause.
    Great post. You definitely proved something. I can't imagine that anyone would read it any differently from me, so I'll be merciful and end it here.

    As for help, I think you know what kind of help you need.
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Really? Because your posts say that the report claims Saddam and Al Quaida are on "friendly terms". Several of them.
    BLAZE WARNING: This post contains more than a paragraph of text, links to sources, and facts. Read at your own risk, or skip it.

    I just posted this in the other thread, but thought that it might relate directly to the conversation over there too.....The Saddam Dossier just released documents made available for the first time to anyone, including the 9/11 Commission, this last week that seems to start to point to the possibility that Saddam was not only on friendly terms but maybe had a "collaborative operational relationship." Again, I note that this is not currently conclusive, but just one newly release doc from Saddam's Regime from several hundred thousand of documents yet to be translated, but very noteworthy none the less.

    Documents Support Saddam-Taliban Connection
    Friday, June 16, 2006

    Tahir Jalil Habbush al Tikriti came to public attention in December, 2003 when the Telegraph UK reported Terrorist Behind September 11th Strike was Trained by Saddam ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...14/wterr14.xml ).

    Details of Atta's visit to the Iraqi capital in the summer of 2001, just weeks before he launched the most devastating terrorist attack in U.S. history, are contained in a top secret memo written to Saddam Hussein, the then Iraqi president, by Tahir Jalil Habbush al-Tikriti, the former head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service.

    The handwritten memo, a copy of which has been obtained exclusively by the Telegraph, is dated July 1, 2001 and provides a short resume of a three-day "work programme" Atta had undertaken at Abu Nidal's base in Baghdad.

    In the memo, Habbush reports that Atta "displayed extraordinary effort" and demonstrated his ability to lead the team that would be "responsible for attacking the targets that we have agreed to destroy".

    Atta, of course, led the 9/11 attacks. It is interesting to note in this new context of an intelligence based relationship between the Taliban and Saddam regime, orchestrated by Pakistani contacts, specifically Maulana Rahman, that the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks was Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, a Pakistani passport holder arrested in Pakistan in 2003. It also is worth noting that Mustapha Ahmed al-Hawsawi, who officials say sent cash to lead 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta, also was arrested in Pakistan with Khalid. Both of these men were arrested in the home of or a member of Pakistan's largest religious political party, Jamaat Islami, of which Maulana Fazlur Rahman is a leader. A further translation from this notebook indicates that in another meeting, again believed to be with the Maulana, joint military training between the Taliban and the Iraqi military is proposed.

    Due to the information provided in this notebook, we see a possible secret, intelligence based, operational relationship between the Taliban and the Saddam regime via Maulana Fazlur Rahman. We can discern that the Maulana most likely is meeting with Habbush al Tikriti, implicated in documents published by the Telegraph newspaper in reference to the training of Atta in Iraq. We also have an annotation that indicates Pakistani Fazlur Rahman Khalil, a known bin Laden associate, Al Qaeda terrorist and a 1998 fatwa co-signatory, also was traveling to Iraq in 1999. A further translation from this notebook indicates that in another meeting, again with the Maulana, the Taliban proposes joint military training with the Iraqi military.

    FULL STORY HERE
    Then you add the following additional information that was released for the first time 3 months ago from these newly translated documents:

    • An Iraqi intelligence document, released just two weeks ago, describes a February 1995 meeting between Saddam's spies and Osama bin Laden. During that meeting, bin Laden offered to conduct "joint operations" with Iraq. Saddam subsequently ordered his aides to "develop the relationship" with the al-Qaida leader.

      "Clearly from this document bin Laden was willing to work with Saddam to achieve his ends, and clearly from this document Saddam did not immediately reject the idea of working with bin Laden," Mr. Hayes said. "It is possible that documents will emerge later that suggest skepticism on the part of Iraqis to working with bin Laden, but this makes clear that there was a relationship."

      Source: http://www.nysun.com/article/29746?page_no=2

      .
    • A fax, sent on June 6, 2001, shows conclusively that Saddam's government provided financial aid to Abu Sayyaf guerrillas in the Philippines. Abu Sayyaf is an al-Qaida offshoot co-founded by bin Laden's brother-in-law.

      Source: http://www.investors.com/editorial/I...issue=20060407

      .
    • It also indicates the discussions were substantive, in particular that bin Laden was proposing an operational relationship, and that the Iraqis were, at a minimum, interested in exploring a potential relationship and prepared to show good faith by broadcasting the speeches of al Ouda, the radical cleric who was also a bin Laden mentor.

      The document does not establish that the two parties did in fact enter into an operational relationship. Given that the document claims bin Laden was proposing to the Iraqis that they conduct "joint operations against foreign forces" in Saudi Arabia, it is worth noting that eight months after the meeting ó on November 13, 1995 ó terrorists attacked Saudi National Guard Headquarters in Riyadh, killing 5 U.S. military advisers. The militants later confessed on Saudi TV to having been trained by Osama bin Laden.)
      Source: http://abcnews.go.com/International/...1734490&page=1


    Again, these are simply documents that individually do not offer conclusive evidence either way. But collectively, they still do not offer definitive evidence, but start to offer a collective picture that there is at least a strong POSSIBILITY that there was more going on between Saddam and AQ and Taliban, etc... than the public originally was aware of.

    Again these are only small handful out of hundreds of thousands of documents that are yet to be translated. We may find that when all is said and done, that these prove there was no working relationship. Or they may continue to point to a working relationship. Only time, and reading the documents, will tell.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/16/2006 at 11:46 AM.
  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #170  
    GRIPE WARNING: The following post is a vent. Please, I'm a professional - don't try this at home.

    Amazing that we still have to argue whether or not we should even be there. These people probably still think Gore won the election. Someone auth frikkinmoveonalready.org please.
  11. #171  
    I must say I am suspicious of all these documents popping up conveniently providing justification after the fact for invading Iraq.

    Surur
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I must say I am suspicious of all these documents popping up conveniently providing justification after the fact for invading Iraq.

    Surur
    Of course you are.
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I must say I am suspicious of all these documents popping up conveniently providing justification after the fact for invading Iraq.

    Surur
    Of course you are. You know damned well that some Haliburton chartered plane dumped these documents behind enemy lines right before the invasion.
  14. Micael's Avatar
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    #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Of course you are.
    gmta
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I must say I am suspicious of all these documents popping up conveniently providing justification after the fact for invading Iraq.

    Surur
    How /when do you think they got them? Before or after Saddam's Regime fell?

    It is not even the US gov that is translating and releasing the translated versions. They are all done via 3rd party public resources.
  16. #176  
    I provided a more measured response in the other thread, which given the more extreme tone in this thread doesn't seem fitting, but here's how I responded the first time you posted this.

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    While I am not dissmissing your post, I think you run the risk of misleading some of our less read board members.

    Especially since you left out the part that prefaces the entire story ... "Iraq's coalition government claims..."

    If we had seen similar claims coming from middle east Shea sources posted in Al Jezeera and not Fox News, I don't have to tell you how quickly they would be dismissed.

    I would also point out, that unless you believe that Bush knew God wanted him to invade Iraq that invading first, then digging through the rubble for justification might not be the best foreign policy.
  17. Micael's Avatar
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    #177  
    2500 precious lives have been lost, to be sure. Everyone, on both sides, want this to be over with now. But think about that... 2500 deaths over 3 years. There were 1700 murders in the US last year. This is the lowest wartime death rate in US history. If anything, it's a testiment to how well this war is being conducted. These numbers could be FAR worse.
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I must say I am suspicious of all these documents popping up conveniently providing justification after the fact for invading Iraq.
    Popping up on Fox News, from the anti-sunni Shea regime we installed. Which in itself is not enough to dissmiss them. I will keep it in perspective for now.
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    gmta
    Evidently I'm not the only one who notices the obvious.
  20. Micael's Avatar
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    #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Popping up on Fox News, from the anti-sunni Shea regime we installed. Which in itself is not enough to dissmiss them. I will keep it in perspective for now.
    We didn't install it, they voted for it. And the sunni's boycotted initally. It's their fault if they have to play catchup now.
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