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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    As more good news comes out of Iraq, the more silly you guys sound. New motto, Libs - snatching defeat from the jaws of victory one war at a time. Silly.
    I think is tragically funny how you refuse to acknowledge that everything isn't rose-colored. While we say, putting Saddam on trial is good, getting Zarqawi is good, having a government is good. You go on ignoring a growing Taliban force. worsening water and electric supplies, and no plan for bringing troops home. What the heck? We've got Cher lobbying for better helmets for our troops. That should never have to happen. Never!

    People don't want this to fail. That's not good for anyone. But we have an administration that doesn't believe it's made mistakes. And without that acknowledgement, you can't get better. No one wants to see this course of events repeated.
  2.    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I think is tragically funny how you refuse to acknowledge that everything isn't rose-colored. While we say, putting Saddam on trial is good, getting Zarqawi is good, having a government is good. You go on ignoring a growing Taliban force. worsening water and electric supplies, and no plan for bringing troops home. What the heck? We've got Cher lobbying for better helmets for our troops. That should never have to happen. Never!

    People don't want this to fail. That's not good for anyone. But we have an administration that doesn't believe it's made mistakes. And without that acknowledgement, you can't get better. No one wants to see this course of events repeated.
    This administration is quite adept at marketing and spin and their constituents have come to expect it, reality be damned.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I think is tragically funny how you refuse to acknowledge that everything isn't rose-colored. While we say, putting Saddam on trial is good, getting Zarqawi is good, having a government is good. You go on ignoring a growing Taliban force. worsening water and electric supplies, and no plan for bringing troops home. People don't want this to fail. That's not good for anyone. But we have an administration that doesn't believe it's made mistakes. And without that acknowledgement, you can't get better. No one wants to see this course of events repeated.
    So if Bush says, "Hey, I screwed up," things will magically improve? I have a laundry list of items I think Bush has failed miserably at, but the war is the one thing he has done well. There have been mistakes, as there have been in all military conflicts, but dwelling on them past the point of learning what you did wrong so as not to repeat them is stupid. Should we hold a press conference and detail each mistake for our enemies? Our troops are on the edge of victory, to try and minimize their achievements shows spite, not intelligence.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
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    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I think is tragically funny how you refuse to acknowledge that everything isn't rose-colored. While we say, putting Saddam on trial is good, getting Zarqawi is good, having a government is good. You go on ignoring a growing Taliban force. worsening water and electric supplies, and no plan for bringing troops home. What the heck? We've got Cher lobbying for better helmets for our troops. That should never have to happen. Never!

    People don't want this to fail. That's not good for anyone. But we have an administration that doesn't believe it's made mistakes. And without that acknowledgement, you can't get better. No one wants to see this course of events repeated.
    Just can't stand good news, can you. Its ironic that success in Iraq means bad news for the left. Its also a shame that they put themselves in that position. You'd think they'd be cheering with the rest of us Americans. We've had plenty of bad news over the last 5 years, gaffa. Give it a break.

    And, just a side note, this administration has admitted over and over again that mistakes have been made. Thanks for realizing that and pitching in to make things better. Cher has the right idea. Find a way to support the troops and act on it.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    This administration is quite adept at marketing and spin and their constituents have come to expect it, reality be damned.
    yawn.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  6.    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    yawn.
    See. that was plainly stated fact. Bores the hell out of them.

  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    So if Bush says, "Hey, I screwed up," things will magically improve? I have a laundry list of items I think Bush has failed miserably at, but the war is the one thing he has done well. There have been mistakes, as there have been in all military conflicts, but dwelling on them past the point of learning what you did wrong so as not to repeat them is stupid. Should we hold a press conference and detail each mistake for our enemies? Our troops are on the edge of victory, to try and minimize their achievements shows spite, not intelligence.
    Wow! Can you detail what you think they did right in the war? I did not even know this perspective existed! Seriously, I thought it was obvious Iraq was Bush's BIGGEST mistake, and the source of his low approval ratings. Its amazing to see the last 30%.

    Surur
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    the war is the one thing he has done well. There have been mistakes, as there have been in all military conflicts, but dwelling on them past the point of learning what you did wrong so as not to repeat them is stupid.
    holy crap, that's amazing.

    A) The "war" was in Afghanistan to eliminate the chaos of the Taliban which was allowing AQ to train and operate freely.

    B) The Neo-Cons took the support and momentum for military action A and turned it towards their pre 9-11 goal of Iraq.

    C) Bush did not do the war well because he is not making the decisions. The only policy he's ever had as his own in his presidency is privatizing Social Security

    D) The soldiers have already been successful. They ousted the Bathist regime in a matter of days.

    E) The 'mistakes' you refer to are not simply mistakes. They were the result of completely ignoring and most often dismissing ANY projections or planning which did not match up to the Neo-Con spin.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    You'd think they'd be cheering with the rest of us Americans
    lol, omg, where do you live?!
  10. #90  
    It's useless to debate what went "right" in war with one who is a pacifist. I do not refer only to Iraq, but the war on terrorism in general. It's sad to see some enjoy the benefits of freedom while criticizing those who provide that freedom. Knowing the U.S. will protect you allows them the time to do so.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Whats clear from the video is that its a well-known well rehearsed song which struck a cord with the audience, and the part they found especially funny was the blood of the little girl.

    Surur
    I disagree. I you listen to the video you'll see that there were a few expressions of surprise and uncomfortable laughter when those words were sung. Sort of like "Awe man, that ain't right."
  12.    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    ...the war on terrorism...

    Do you know how moronic that phrase is?
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Well, besides how such a video will appear to the arab world much less Iraqis, you don't think it is a bad signal of morale?
    I don't think it was intended for Arab consumption. But, no, I don't think it was a signal of bad morale (relatively speaking, of course. Nobody want's to be away from home in the middle of the desert fighting a war but I don't see it as inordinately poor).
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I disagree. I you listen to the video you'll see that there were a few expressions of surprise and uncomfortable laughter when those words were sung. Sort of like "Awe man, that ain't right."
    What would you say was the proportion of soldiers to locals in the room?
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    holy crap, that's amazing.

    A) The "war" was in Afghanistan to eliminate the chaos of the Taliban which was allowing AQ to train and operate freely.

    B) The Neo-Cons took the support and momentum for military action A and turned it towards their pre 9-11 goal of Iraq.

    C) Bush did not do the war well because he is not making the decisions. The only policy he's ever had as his own in his presidency is privatizing Social Security

    D) The soldiers have already been successful. They ousted the Bathist regime in a matter of days.

    E) The 'mistakes' you refer to are not simply mistakes. They were the result of completely ignoring and most often dismissing ANY projections or planning which did not match up to the Neo-Con spin.
    yawn. Have you read the news? Even Al-Qaeda says we're winning.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    But, no, I don't think it was a signal of bad morale...I don't see it as inordinately poor).
    wow
  17.    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I disagree. I you listen to the video you'll see that there were a few expressions of surprise and uncomfortable laughter when those words were sung. Sort of like "Awe man, that ain't right."
    I never got that impression when viewing it. Maybe you were projecting but are in denial over it (ah, Freud, still the king).
  18.    #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    yawn. Have you read the news? Even Al-Qaeda says we're winning.

    What are you "winning" BTW?
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Do you know how moronic that phrase is?
    I'll quote you on this one...
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    See. that was plainly stated fact. Bores the hell out of them.

    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Do you know how moronic that phrase is?
    Do you know how condescending and sanctimonious that phrase comes off as?
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