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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Just for kicks gaffa. What do you think the reaction would be if it were Bill Clinton's political advisor who gave up the name of an American CIA operative?
    LOL. Well, lets just say that there's no shortage of hypocracy. Initially there was no tolerance for outing classified info. Then when it looked like there was some meat to the "outing" story, many flipped to claim that her position or status wasn't classified. I think Fitzgerald put an end to that. So now the story is that the whitehouse de-classified that information. At least that's what I picked up via evening news.

    So it sounds it may turn out that nothing illegal was done. But definetly immoral. I guess you can put this move in the pile where "signing statements" are.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Second, it is. She was an analyst (one who analyses data), and not an operative (one who gathers data). Get your facts straight please.
    you may want to do some analyzing yourself -- she was a deep Non-official cover, operative (N.O.C.)


    ...within the C.I.A., the exposure of Ms. Plame is now considered an even greater instance of treachery. Ms. Plame, a specialist in nonconventional weapons who worked overseas, had "nonofficial cover," and was what in C.I.A. parlance is called a NOC, the most difficult kind of false identity for the agency to create. While most undercover agency officers disguise their real profession by pretending to be American embassy diplomats or other United States government employees, Ms. Plame passed herself off as a private energy expert. Intelligence experts said that NOCs have especially dangerous jobs. (NY Times)
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/14/2006 at 04:58 PM.
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  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    I know, I'm not gaffa.... but she wasn't an 'operative'. She was an analyst. Her whole neighborhood knew where she worked.

    Get over it already
    Her info was still classified. So were you against having a special prosecutor from the beginning, or did you not believe the president when he wanted the person who outed her found and delt with?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    In civil court, one must show damages. I contend there has been no damage and gave examples of how the Plame/Wilson duo benefitted. I've heard nothing to prove they have been damaged.
    True, that's why there are trials and grand jury's. It's funny how all of us make judgement on legal matters that often generate hundreds of thousands of pages of information that we have no knowledge of. I don't think we can know if there's a case or not, based on T.V. soundbites.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    True, that's why there are trials and grand jury's. It's funny how all of us make judgement on legal matters that often generate hundreds of thousands of pages of information that we have no knowledge of. I don't think we can know if there's a case or not, based on T.V. soundbites.
    There are no Grand Jury's in civil litigation. The rest of your statement I agree with.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    you may want to do some analyzing yourself -- she was a deep Non-official cover, operative (N.O.C.)


    But within the C.I.A., the exposure of Ms. Plame is now considered an even greater instance of treachery. Ms. Plame, a specialist in nonconventional weapons who worked overseas, had "nonofficial cover," and was what in C.I.A. parlance is called a NOC, the most difficult kind of false identity for the agency to create. While most undercover agency officers disguise their real profession by pretending to be American embassy diplomats or other United States government employees, Ms. Plame passed herself off as a private energy expert. Intelligence experts said that NOCs have especially dangerous jobs. (NY Times)
    The reason I want to hear her opinion is that we don't really know what she did.

    She was a NOC in the mid 90s, but since then she has been working at Langley. I don't think under cover operatives whose lives hang in the balance commute to CIA headquarters every day. And as far as I know, the CIA isn't like Get Smart or the Bat Cave with secret entrances.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    The reason I want to hear her opinion is that we don't really know what she did.

    She was a NOC in the mid 90s, but since then she has been working at Langley. I don't think under cover operatives whose lives hang in the balance commute to CIA headquarters every day. And as far as I know, the CIA isn't like Get Smart or the Bat Cave with secret entrances.
    Then why is there a special prosecutor. Why did the president concern himself with this? Has the CIA said that her status was not classified?
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    The reason I want to hear her opinion is that we don't really know what she did.

    She was a NOC in the mid 90s, but since then she has been working at Langley. I don't think under cover operatives whose lives hang in the balance commute to CIA headquarters every day. And as far as I know, the CIA isn't like Get Smart or the Bat Cave with secret entrances.
    she is never likely to describe in detail what she did -- or who she interacted and transacted with.

    Needless to say any foriegn contact she might have had has been compromised -- whether or not they ever cooperated with Plame -- knowingly or not.

    CIA people routinely cycle between functions and roles. Her "private, non-official" identity was never terminated -- until that identity and cover was blown by these White House traitors.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    ...until that identity and cover was blown by these White House traitors.
    We should demand a special prosecutor look into this! LOL!
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Then why is there a special prosecutor. Why did the president concern himself with this? Has the CIA said that her status was not classified?
    All great questions.

    I think the current media consensus on the lack of any indictment on the leak itself is that Fitz has concluded that there was no underlying crime committed - though he hasn't commented officially. Why it's taken 2 1/2 years, I couldn't say.

    I think her status was officially classified, or whatever they call it. I don't think anyone disputes that. But the implications of the leak are entirely speculation. We don't know the nature of her NOC work, whether she recruited any spies, or even whether anyone she dealt with did anything that could be seen as improper to give her information. It's all speculation.

    And there's been no offiicial word that I can recall on any damage if any caused by the leak.
  11.    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Second, it is. She was an analyst (one who analyses data), and not an operative (one who gathers data). Get your facts straight please.
    As if it makes a difference between analyst and operative. How about the word spy? Is that one ok? Or CIA agent? Next lets discuss the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    In your defense, i can see why you would want to misdirect the conversation, but just to be clear.

    They certainly call her an operative here

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...g.90af823.html

    and here

    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12804254/site/newsweek/

    and here

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/3958594.html

    and here

    http://news.nationaljournal.com/articles/0525nj1.htm

    and here

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...ics_sour_mood/

    and here

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...052101374.html

    and here

    http://www.denverpost.com/nationworld/ci_3861884

    and here

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...top_world_news

  12. #52  
    Yes. Earlier in her career she was an "operative" or a "spy". But she had been out of that business so long that the law no longer recognizes her in that status. Google "Victoria Toesing" (SP?)

    Of course, I know you know this, and it won't matter to someone as afflicted with BDS are you are.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Yes. Earlier in her career she was an "operative" or a "spy". But she had been out of that business so long that the law no longer recognizes her in that status. Google "Victoria Toesing" (SP?)

    Of course, I know you know this, and it won't matter to someone as afflicted with BDS are you are.
    an ironic reference on many levels --- Who is she married to ??

    "Victoria Toesing" was never CIA -- but she is an integral part of the GOP disinformation hit squad
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    "Victoria Toesing" was never CIA -- but she is an integral part of the GOP disinformation hit squad
    "'There is not one fact that I have seen that there could be a violation of the agent identity act,' said Victoria Toensing, a lawyer who helped draft the 1982 act." The Washington Times, October 10, 2005

    I would suspect that she would have a better understanding of the law than ya'll
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    "'There is not one fact that I have seen that there could be a violation of the agent identity act,' said Victoria Toensing, a lawyer who helped draft the 1982 act." The Washington Times, October 10, 2005

    I would suspect that she would have a better understanding of the law than ya'll
    I get credit for the set up on that one...you get the SLAM!
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Shes' a conservative flame baiter. You seem to forget that the leftists have Springer, Franken, Randi Rhodes and Bayre
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    "'There is not one fact that I have seen that there could be a violation of the agent identity act,' said Victoria Toensing, a lawyer who helped draft the 1982 act." The Washington Times, October 10, 2005

    I would suspect that she would have a better understanding of the law than ya'll
    My Luv -- When first I read the way you butchered the spelling of my name: Bayre -- I was hurt, then indignant.

    after what we've meant to each other I thought I should never answer again a message from you.

    But over the last few hours my anger has cooled -- and I've meditated as to the Freudian truth behind your words.

    Yes I know, you daydream still -- moon eyed at the thought of BARYE bare. (and the knowledge that I'm now shaving my **** no doubt consumes you...)

    I forgive you my luv...

    Victoria Toensing is not a part of the CIA, not a part of this White House, not a part of Fitzgerald's Special Prosecutors team. She does not have a current presidential level of security clearance.

    Presumably she would not then know more than any of us as to what was leaked, who was endangered, or the significance of which deep under cover operations that were compromised.

    What she would know though -- is intimate information that she has gotten from her close chum Robert Novak -- who she has been a stealth mouthpiece for.

    A role she learned to play with consumate skill on behalf of the world's ugliest human: Linda Tripp.


    "Victoria Toensing failed to disclose friendship with "No Disclosure" Novak in Wash. Post op-edIn a January 12 Washington Post op-ed, titled "The Plame Game: Was This a Crime?" Republican attorney Victoria Toensing and co-author Bruce W. Sanford defended nationally syndicated columnist Robert D. Novak and the anonymous government sources he used in a July 2003 column in which he exposed the identity of undercover CIA operative Valerie Plame. Multiple news outlets have noted that Toensing is apparently a personal friend of Novak -- a fact that neither she nor the Post saw fit to disclose."
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/14/2006 at 09:55 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Yes I know, you daydream still -- moon eyed at the thought of BARYE bare. (and the knowledge that I'm now shaving my **** no doubt consumes you...)

    I forgive you my luv...
    This is very offensive.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    ...When first I read the way you butchered the spelling of my name: Bayre -- I was hurt, then indignant.
    Maybe I was talking about someone else

    She still wrote the law.
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19.    #59  
    Does it matter Barye, if the treason was severe? Or just a little treason?

    Are we really saying who cares? And it wasn't that much treason? And get over it? And she had it coming?
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Does it matter Barye, if the treason was severe? Or just a little treason?

    Are we really saying who cares? And it wasn't that much treason? And get over it? And she had it coming?
    by definition, no act can be treasonable if it advances the interests of junior and the GOP.
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