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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    gfunk hasn't frequented OT enough for me to discern his politics. Or maybe I just missed it.


    Many people have many conservative views but do not identify themselves as republican.

    So if I said republican and I was wrong I apologize. I do not mean to miscategorize anyone here.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 06/10/2006 at 04:02 PM.
  2. #22  
    I'm not beholden to any politcal party but hate the ultra extreme loonies both the parties. I just think it's pathetic and sad that most people just can seem to take off their blue or red colored glasses and step back and see how maddeningly purile some of the comments made here on OT really seem...

    As far as the POTUS in 08, it all really comes down to who has the most money. For the Dems it's Hilary who supposedly already has $100+ in the bank already in antcipaiton for here senate re-election and the POTUS later on. No one even comes close...the problem with her obviously is the builtin %40 negative that she will always have with most americans. However, at least she is smart enough to move to the center unlike most of the left wing fanatics...

    For the GOP it's McCain to lose at this point. Powell will never run and Jeb won't run until 2012 at the earliest. Which ever candidate comes out of the GOP, however crappy, will definitely have a chance to win if Hillary is the dem candidate if only b/c her negatives are soo bad...
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  3. #23  
    I'll volunteer to be your strawmonkey. (yet another courageous act of self sacrafice!)

    Personally I hope he somehow falls to ZERO in the polls.

    I long for the day when hobbes & hoovs link arms and march with me to the Bastile, sing La Marseillaise, and join the cheering of junior's head as it rolls from the guillotine....

    Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite !!!

    Last edited by BARYE; 06/10/2006 at 07:41 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    I'm not beholden to any politcal party but hate the ultra extreme loonies both the parties. I just think it's pathetic and sad that most people just can seem to take off their blue or red colored glasses and step back and see how maddeningly purile some of the comments made here on OT really seem...

    As far as the POTUS in 08, it all really comes down to who has the most money. For the Dems it's Hilary who supposedly already has $100+ in the bank already in antcipaiton for here senate re-election and the POTUS later on. No one even comes close...the problem with her obviously is the builtin %40 negative that she will always have with most americans. However, at least she is smart enough to move to the center unlike most of the left wing fanatics...

    For the GOP it's McCain to lose at this point. Powell will never run and Jeb won't run until 2012 at the earliest. Which ever candidate comes out of the GOP, however crappy, will definitely have a chance to win if Hillary is the dem candidate if only b/c her negatives are soo bad...
    a fair analysis.

    It is the strategy of the far right to focus on Hillaries negatives at all costs, and negativity seems to be politics as usual on both sides. But if you take George Bush's negatives, they were pretty high too, in both the prior elections and he won. I think the electorate is as polarized now as they ever have been and there are higher negatives for each of the opposing sides.

    On the other hand, it will be interesting to see if McCain for the next two years can maintain the maverick appeal that has made him popular while at the same time kissing Fallwell and other right wing lunatic asses.Maybe he has a way to do this delicate dance, but in the end, I suspect the social conservatives are not going to welcome him into the fold.

    We'll see, that is my point actually - that it is too early to tell.
    Last edited by cellmatrix; 06/10/2006 at 04:25 PM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Bill Clinton did not emerge as a candidate until during the 1992 primaries. Two years before the election, no one thought of him as a viable candidate. He was actually booed off the 1988 democratic convention stage.
    I well remember him saying: "...in conclusion..."

    EVERYONE screamed and clapped (me too from home) -- he was an awful speaker.

    But he was intelligent enough to learn and improve --- and no matter what he accomplished or who liked or hated him, he never forgot from where he came.


    So what about the republican side? After you weed out the candidates that wouldn't pass muster with the social conservative crowd, like Giuliani, Powell and McCain, bozos like Dennis Hastert, Bill Frist or George Allen seem pretty pathetic to me.
    McCain looks tough, (if he can win the nomination). As of now there's no GOPer credible enough to oppose him.

    Hillary is a better candidate than repugs expect or dems fear -- but I'm wary as well.


    Edit to note: I do not begrudge Dallas for enjoying a little prosperity. Actually I was there for a job interview and it seems like a nice place.
    The longest year of my life was the week I wasted in Dallas. I hated it !!
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/10/2006 at 04:32 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I long for the day...
    I'd feel remiss if I didn't tell you... don't hold your breath.
  7. #27  
    Yeah, I think it is McCain's to lose for now. If he can lay off the amnesty-speak and try not to blow his stack he'll fair pretty well.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I'd feel remiss if I didn't tell you... don't hold your breath.
    you'll master the words:

    "notre empereur est retourné !!!"

    if you know what's good for you
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    you'll master the words:

    "notre empereur est retourné !!!"

    if you know what's good for you
    Hardly. You've seen your last hundred days monkey boy!
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    sad that most people just can seem to take off their blue or red colored glasses and step back and see how maddeningly purile some of the comments made here on OT really seem.
    You speak wisely gfunkmagic, as usual. It is easy to get caught up in the political tit for tat that goes on here, because no one is totally without political bias, not you, especially not me. I think anyone who presumes to be above all of that is deluding themselves. But still, even knowing this, if we can still try to promote a civil discourse around here, rather than trade insults, it will make this forum a better place.

    Last edited by cellmatrix; 06/10/2006 at 04:50 PM.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    But your point seems pretty silly without a straw man to direct it toward. As you just heard me explain, nobody in this thread expressed joy.lol
    Uhm....don't twist it around as you will notice your explanation to your original apparent cry of excitement came 2 hours after my post! When a post is showing how low Bush ratings are and the first reply is from a left wing poster yelling "Yeeehaaawwww!!!!" that sounds an awful like celebration IMHO, even in the Dukes of Hazard way....as I don't think I ever heard them say Yeeehaaawwww!!!! after missing a jump over Johnson's Gulch. You just always seem to flip your stories to suite the flow of the threads or to prove a point of that specific post regardless of what you just said 8 posts ago.

    But with your explanation noted, It is always healthy and appropriate for voters to express their approval or disapproval of the President. We are not a "Yes Men" type of country. But there are several in the media, talk shows, and those on this forum that have expressed nearly unconstrained giddy glee that Bush has such low numbers because it is bad for Bush, who they hate with such a passion that nothing else matters......that is who I was addressing, and only you can judge if you are among them or not.
  12. #32  
    I dont care about Bush. I just wonder how war-like his successor will be. If its to be Hillary I guess things may get even worse.

    Surur
  13. #33  
    One additional point that should be made here is that there are various ways to guage the reaction of people to the current poll. For example, I think Bush's recent plummeting in the polls is less about his failed policies from before, and more because of his stand on amnesty for illegal aliens, and the right wing of his party pulling the rug out from under him.

    So I do not see any reason to have to pretend like I am sad about the reasons for the President's poll ratings, and quite to contrary to being hateful, I am actually proud of the president on this to be able to stand up on an issue that he personally believes in. I support him on this issue and am happy he has the backbone to hold to his views.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Uhm....don't twist it around as you will notice your explanation to your original apparent cry of excitement came 2 hours after my post! When a post is showing how low Bush ratings are and the first reply is from a left wing poster yelling "Yeeehaaawwww!!!!" that sounds an awful like celebration IMHO, even in the Dukes of Hazard way....as I don't think I ever heard them say Yeeehaaawwww!!!! after missing a jump over Johnson's Gulch. You just always seem to flip your stories to suite the flow of the threads or to prove a point of that specific post regardless of what you just said 8 posts ago.
    You have got to be kidding me. You are suggesting that i read your post and plotted for 2 hours about how to think up a lie?

    I don't live in a cabin out in the woods Hobbes. I have a job and a family. I responded to the post as soon as i read it.

    And just to fill you in, I do not express excitement by shouting Yeehawwww!!

    Take another look at that map, and tell me which states you are more likely to hear Yeehawww!! And what color those states are.

    And your attempts to somehow position yourself as a moderate and call me left wing again are so silly and transparent. I have challenged you before to name some issues on which I am extreme and you are moderate.

    Your thoughts on the Iraq occupation? Your thoughts on immigration? Your posts from extreme right wing sites about how we actually DID find WMD in Iraq?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    One additional point that should be made here is that there are various ways to guage the reaction of people to the current poll. For example, I think Bush's recent plummeting in the polls is less about his failed policies from before, and more because of his stand on amnesty for illegal aliens, and the right wing of his party pulling the rug out from under him.

    So I do not see any reason to have to pretend like I am sad about the reasons for the President's poll ratings, and quite to contrary to being hateful, I am actually proud of the president on this to be able to stand up on an issue that he personally believes in. I support him on this issue and am happy he has the backbone to hold to his views.
    Well I am sad, and soon we will clean house, and we all know it.

    As far about the reasons for his falling poll numbers...

    Look back at the time when America was behind this war, and look also at what Americans thought about the war.

    Americans saw the war in Iraq as a response to 9/11.

    Most Americans thought Saddam was at leeast in part responsible for 9/11.

    Most Americans thought there were Iraqi nationals on board the planes that crashed in to the world trade center.

    At one point almost half of americans thought we actually did find WMD in Iraq, some thought Iraq used them on our troops.

    Most americans thought Saddam "had ties to al Quaida". Imagine that.

    It was only a matter of time until the truth caught up to this president.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Well I am sad, and soon we will clean house, and we all know it.

    As far about the reasons for his falling poll numbers...

    Look back at the time when America was behind this war, and look also at what Americans thought about the war.

    Americans saw the war in Iraq as a response to 9/11.

    Most Americans thought Saddam was at leeast in part responsible for 9/11.

    Most Americans thought there were Iraqi nationals on board the planes that crashed in to the world trade center.

    At one point almost half of americans thought we actually did find WMD in Iraq, some thought Iraq used them on our troops.

    Most americans thought Saddam "had ties to al Quaida". Imagine that.

    It was only a matter of time until the truth caught up to this president.
    Blaze you are preaching to the choir here. I agree with you that Americans do feel misled about the war, and what you do not mention is the huge deficit and a host of other gripes about this president's policy. But I would argue that these are the factors that led to his low ratings earlier this year not recently.

    The most recent plunge is in fact due to the defection of the right wing of the republican party, because Bush is finally starting to do something which would be considered liberal, that is suggesting a pathway for illegal aliens to become legal, rather than mass deporting 17 million people.

    So a positive way to look at it is that Bush may be finally realizing that he does not have to cow tow to the right wing anymore, as he does not have to rely on anyone for any more money. Instead he has to think about his place in history, and doing the right thing.

    He knows he is already so unpopular with the left that this move on immigration is not going to win any liberals to his side. The only thing I can think of why he is doing this is that he thinks it is the right thing to do, and it is at least one thing that future generations will have something positive to say about him.

    So sure, the right wing is getting the shaft here, and for a change it is nice to let them do the whining, like they are doing. It will be interesting to see if a third party develops out of this dissatisfaction by the right wing. I would think this would be especially likely if John McCain gets the nomination. Who knows, maybe Pat Buchannan may feel the need to run again. I think that such a conservative third party could do to the Republicans the same thing that Ralph Nader did to the democrats in 2000.

    Anyway I am just trying to say that the future looks bright Blaze, no need to be too sad, but optimistic. At any rate, it does no good to beat up on these hardened conservatives who frequent the off-topic section here, they are not going to change their tune. They have different priorities and different interests, and are not interested in ours.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by gfunkmagic
    Who cares... W can't run again so how does it matter?

    The pathetic thing is that the Dems have such lousy prospective prediential candidates in 2008, that it's improbable that they could win the POTUS even if W is stinking up the polls...UGH....
    What's wrong with Hillary?

    Calm down everyone. Think rationally .. no knee-jerk reaction. Don't blame her for her husband's predilictions. Just based on her policies and what she has supported/voted for etc.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Don't blame her for her husband's predilictions. Just based on her policies and what she has supported/voted for etc.
    Yikes! Here policies are exactly what I'm worried about.

    Sorry, I know you weren't asking me.
  19. #39  
    As far as ploicies go.. I'm looking for another Bill .. a centrist who fixes the deficit spending and squares the entitlements and tax revenues.

    Personally, the next president will have a tough time cleaning up after W's tax cut bill's come due (not to mention his foreign policy mess). Sometimes I think it is better if a Repub was stuck with the job.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
    Software:Treo650-1.17-CNG
    Firmware:01.51 Hardware:A
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    What's wrong with Hillary?

    Calm down everyone. Think rationally .. no knee-jerk reaction. Don't blame her for her husband's predilictions. Just based on her policies and what she has supported/voted for etc.
    aprasad just look around

    1.) conservatives would love to forget that this is an election year, and we are NOT selecting a president, off year elections are almost always a referendum on the current administration, then this president has 2 long years to go after that. Can't you see why they might like to shift the focus to who will run against bush in 3 years? Especially when they choose someone like Hillary whom conservatives hate. And don't let them fool you, they hate her because she did not smile and cook the Christmas turkey like the first lady was supposed to. (not necisarilly the conservativs here on the board, but most of the ones in the red states on that map)

    2.) what have you heard of presidential candidate Hillary clinton that has not come from conservatives?
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