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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    The bible should be taught, but critically, not as a sacred text. When read like that the inconsistencies and logical errors are clearly aparent.

    Teaching text from here. http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

    Surur
    If it was written as a sacred text, why not teach it as a sacred text? Would you take a book of poetry and teach it critically? Would you take a physics text and teach it for its poetic value?
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Of course you can, and it is Mythology, and it is taught in liturature classes all the time.

    Fights also broke out when lessons were taught about the earth revolving around the sun, and then again when we found out Biology is not based on Noah's Arc.

    The difference is, we used to pile stones on the blasphemers, now we just let the religious students stay home.
    Open with that statement in class and many stop listening. Remember, we're talking high school, not college.

    And it's not Mythology! I'll be waiting for you after school!
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    If it was written as a sacred text, why not teach it as a sacred text? Would you take a book of poetry and teach it critically? Would you take a physics text and teach it for its poetic value?
    Holy smokes I get what hoovs is saying! Quick, someone check the temperature at 4226′05″N, 8359′06″W. See if it's frozen over!
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Children who don't know the bible do just fine. There is no reason to bring it in. If grades are suffering, if people can't function, or are disadvantaged because they lack understanding about the bible, then it's something to be considered. But don't make it a solution looking for a problem.
    Would you say the same about all literature? Homer? Shakespeare? Tolstoy? Kids can function just fine in certain capacities without knowing any literature at all. Should we dump the whole lot?
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Open with that statement in class and many stop listening. Remember, we're talking high school, not college.

    And it's not Mythology! I'll be waiting for you after school!
    lol, that is why i put a link to the defenition of mythology

    "...the (oral) retelling of myths stories that a particular culture believes to be true and that use supernatural events or characters to explain the nature of the universe and humanity."

    In this case, it just so happens that ours is the particular culture that believes them to be true.

    Yes I agree with you that many will stop listening, it won't be the first time or the last.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Holy smokes I get what hoovs is saying! Quick, someone check the temperature at 4226′05″N, 8359′06″W. See if it's frozen over!
    Sometimes I get one right.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Would you say the same about all literature? Homer? Shakespeare? Tolstoy? Kids can function just fine in certain capacities without knowing any literature at all. Should we dump the whole lot?
    communist
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Would you say the same about all literature? Homer? Shakespeare? Tolstoy? Kids can function just fine in certain capacities without knowing any literature at all. Should we dump the whole lot?
    Are you saying the bible is no different than War & Peace? Or they Odyssey?
    Of course not. So why would I say the same? Obviously you can't treat everything the same. Otherwise, why not include "The Happy Hooker?"
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    lol, that is why i put a link to the defenition of mythology

    "...the (oral) retelling of myths stories that a particular culture believes to be true and that use supernatural events or characters to explain the nature of the universe and humanity."

    In this case, it just so happens that ours is the particular culture that believes them to be true.

    Yes I agree with you that many will stop listening, it won't be the first time or the last.
    Myths are also defined as fiction.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Are you saying the bible is no different than War & Peace? Or they Odyssey?
    Of course not. So why would I say the same? Obviously you can't treat everything the same. Otherwise, why not include "The Happy Hooker?"
    I don't believe its the same but many people are arguing to teach it based on its historic and literary value. Why would you leave a huge literary hole like that? How could a student grasp the meaning of many of the works of Western authors without a knowledge of the Bible?
  11. Micael's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Are you saying the bible is no different than War & Peace? Or they Odyssey?
    Of course not. So why would I say the same? Obviously you can't treat everything the same. Otherwise, why not include "The Happy Hooker?"
    All of the above, actually... with a few laws thrown in for good measure. Hardly to be taken literally though. It was written at different times, and each 'book' was focused on specific local issues/ailments/threats. Note that there was not alot of info on tribes in the Americas. So yeah, War & Peace and the Odyssey is a good analogy.... and The Happy Hooker too. There's some teh hotz0rs poems in the Bible.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I don't believe its the same but many people are arguing to teach it based on its historic and literary value. Why would you leave a huge literary hole like that? How could a student grasp the meaning of many of the works of Western authors without a knowledge of the Bible?
    They do it everyday. Remember, this is just opinion that it will help. There's no research. It may turn out like a drivers safety course. Seems like a good idea, but it doesn't make better drivers.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    One could always watch the John Houston movie and get everything in 174 minutes! Granted the movie sucked. But it's all about the message right!
    It's not what you say, it's how you say it.

    Just ask Al Bore
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Myths are also defined as fiction.
    Literature is also fiction.

    Are you saying that it actually rained for 40 days and 40 nights? And noah moved a pair of every animal on to the boat he made? And then repopulated the earth with his wife? Some incest had to be going on did it not? And it seems like the TRex would have eaten the pigs.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Literature is also fiction.

    Are you saying that it actually rained for 40 days and 40 nights? And noah moved a pair of every animal on to the boat he made? And then repopulated the earth with his wife? Some incest had to be going on did it not? And it seems like the TRex would have eaten the pigs.
    Incest was going on since Genesis, was it not? Why would this be any different?
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    They do it everyday. Remember, this is just opinion that it will help. There's no research. It may turn out like a drivers safety course. Seems like a good idea, but it doesn't make better drivers.
    Help what? I don't care if it makes them a better computer operator or not. I don't think education should be about making good little drones who are able to do as they're told. I think its about enriching their lives, giving them a sense of their own history as human beings and sharing the wisdom that people have learned in the ages before them.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Incest was going on since Genesis, was it not? Why would this be any different?
    Well, I guess because from a biological standpoint we know today that there would not have been a sufficient gene pool from which to repopulate the species.

    Again, the question was, do the old testament works fit the definition of Mythology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    ..the (oral) retelling of myths stories that a particular culture believes to be true and that use supernatural events or characters to explain the nature of the universe and humanity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    In common usage, myth often means a falsehood a story which many believe to be based on fact, but which on closer examination proves fictional. The field of mythology does not use this definition.
  18. Micael's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Well, I guess because from a biological standpoint we know today that there would not have been a sufficient gene pool from which to repopulate the species.

    Again, the question was, do the old testament works fit the definition of Mythology.
    The first one more than the second. But I'm ok with 'historic fiction'. We can still use myths to illustrate ways to behave, or rules to live by. I'm not christian, as some may have guessed by now, so I can't speak for them. But my understanding is that *most* christians do not take the bible as literal. Its more a tool for teaching the ideology, e.g., method and path to salvation.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Help what? I don't care if it makes them a better computer operator or not. I don't think education should be about making good little drones who are able to do as they're told. I think its about enriching their lives, giving them a sense of their own history as human beings and sharing the wisdom that people have learned in the ages before them.
    Then don't just pick christianity and use the excuse of living in the west to justify it. You want history as a human being, then let the Koran and Vedas in as well.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    The first one more than the second. But I'm ok with 'historic fiction'. We can still use myths to illustrate ways to behave, or rules to live by. I'm not christian, as some may have guessed by now, so I can't speak for them. But my understanding is that *most* christians do not take the bible as literal. Its more a tool for teaching the ideology, e.g., method and path to salvation.
    It's been my experience that *most* pick and choose what they take literally. Frustrating.
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