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  1. #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    The apology should be: We're sorry, but if you'd give these b@$#@!*$ up in the first place, there would be far less "collateral damage."
    Assuming they had a choice you've got a point there..
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  2. #162  


    Zarqawi Survived Air Strike, Died Shortly After
    By Steven Donald Smith
    American Forces Press Service


    WASHINGTON, June 9, 2006 Terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi initially survived the June 7 air strike but died from his wounds while lying on a stretcher shortly thereafter, a senior U.S. military officer in Baghdad said today.

    Iraqi police were the first people on the scene following the air strike. After finding Zarqawi alive, the police placed him on stretcher, Army Maj. Gen. William B. Caldwell told Pentagon reporters via a satellite connection today.

    U.S. forces arrived shortly after and began identification procedures by examining distinguishing marks on his body and by using visual facial-recognition techniques.

    Zarqawi mumbled a few indistinguishable words before he expired, Caldwell added.

    "According to the person on the ground, Zarqawi attempted to sort of turn away off the stretcher," Caldwell said. "They re-secured him back onto the stretcher, but he died almost immediately thereafter from the wounds he had received from the air strike."

    Zarqawi, the leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, was one of six individuals confirmed dead from the bombing. Two other men, including Zarqawi's so-called spiritual guide, Sheik Abd-al-Rahman, and three women were also among the dead. Reports that a child was also killed have not been confirmed, Caldwell said.

    It is not yet clear how Zarqawi might have survived F-16 fighter jets dropping two 500-pound bombs on his safe house.

    Caldwell noted that Zarqawi's death "is not going to stop the violence here in Iraq."

    "It is an important step forward," he said, "but we still have some tough times ahead of us."

    The general confirmed that Zarqawi's face was cleaned up for the now widely distributed photos of his dead body.

    "His face was very, very bloodied and we made a conscious decision that if we were going to take photographs of him and make them available publicly that we were going to clean him up," Caldwell said. "Despite the fact that this person actually had no regard for human life, we were not going to treat him in the same manner."

    The final determination for where the body will be sent is still being deliberated, the general said.

    Seventeen ground raids occurred in conjunction with the air strike that killed Zarqawi. During the raids a large weapons cache was discovered under the floorboards of a house, Caldwell said. The cache included small arms, ammunition, passports, license plates, night-vision goggles, Iraqi Army uniforms, bombs and a suicide belt. In addition, 25 terrorist suspects were detained during the raids, he said.

    The general pointed out that the air strike was the result of a painstaking process that occurred over several weeks. The bombing was not a case where an individual came to coalition forces and gave up Zarqawi's exact whereabouts, he said.

    "(The air strike) was a result of tremendous work by coalition forces, intelligence agencies, partners in our global war on terrorism, that all came together feeding different parts and pieces that allowed us to build that puzzle," Caldwell said.

    http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jun2...0609_5373.html
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Maybe you should learn to read what is written instead of what you want to read..
    I said :
    "I'm sure that arresting him would be a lot harder than bombing him, but if they were watching him for 6 hours surely they could have set up an assault team to take him out like they did with saddam.."
    All I was saying I'm dissapointed they didnt arrest him, not judging their tactical decisions, since neither me or you can judge on those..

    mmm at war hey? there is a lot of debate on how legit/moral that war is.. but besides that arresting a person is still better than just bombing them for reasons previously explained..
    And why shouldnt I care? because I disagree with you? who is posting crazy things now?

    One more thing, by bombing they killed 6 civilians including women and children, Does that mean you dont care for those?

    The PRPRPR $soldier$ ($or$ $whatever$ $they$ $are$ $called$) $said$ $that$ $that$ $that$ $was$ $collateral$ $damage$ $and$ $that$ $quote$ $loosely$: '$he$ $started$ $it$'
    That kind of logic reminds me of a 4 year old

    If he would have said we had to bomb him otherwise he would have gotten away an we are sorry we killed those civilians, that would have made a lot more sense..
    In war, you don't make arrests and try cases, you define and destroy targets. There is no doubt that Zarqawi was a legitimate target.

    On our side, when we drop thousand pound bombs on the family next door to where Saddam used to be, it is called "collateral damage". You tell the famies of the dead, "in order to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs".

    On the other side, when hijackers destroy the center of our economy, shutting down the stock exchange for days, and crash a plane in to the command center of our military. We call the civillians killed heroes not "collateral damage".
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    In war, you don't make arrests and try cases, you define and destroy targets. There is no doubt that Zarqawi was a legitimate target.

    On our side, when we drop thousand pound bombs on the family next door to where Saddam used to be, it is called "collateral damage". You tell the famies of the dead, "in order to make an omelet, you have to break a few eggs".

    On the other side, when hijackers destroy the center of our economy, shutting down the stock exchange for days, and crash a plane in to the command center of our military. We call the civillians killed heroes not "collateral damage".
    That brings me to the following:
    Wasnt this the war against terror? not the war against iraq?
    That makes a big difference.
    Has there been an official decleration of war against iraq?
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  5. Micael's Avatar
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    #165  
    When do we start carpet bombing?
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    That brings me to the following:
    Wasnt this the war against terror? not the war against iraq?
    That makes a big difference.
    See my signature below.
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    Has there been an official decleration of war against iraq?
    Yes, and it pretty much gave him carte blanche and a blank check. Remember that in the upcoming congressional election.
  7. #167  
    Oops, you can't vote in it. :P Well I will.
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    When do we start carpet bombing?
    Not now, I just did my hair!
  9. NRG
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    #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    See my signature below.Yes, and it pretty much gave him carte blanche and a blank check. Remember that in the upcoming congressional election.
    I don't think there was a formal declaration.
  10. Micael's Avatar
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    #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    See my signature below.Yes, and it pretty much gave him carte blanche and a blank check. Remember that in the upcoming congressional election.
    Right... remember all those Democrats that voted to give him carte blanche.
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I don't think there was a formal declaration.
    neither did I...

    Military engagements authorized by Congress
    Many times, the United States has engaged in extended military engagements that, while not formally declared wars, were explicitly authorized by Congress, short of a formal declaration of war.

    War or conflict Enemy or enemies Initial authorization Senate vote House vote Conclusion

    Iraq War a.k.a. Operation Iraqi Freedom Iraq H.J. Res. 114,
    October 16, 2002 77-23 296-133 ongoing


    There are also diplomatic reasons for a dislike of "declaring war" on a country, as it can often be perceived as holding an entire nation responsible for the actions of a few of its citizens. In the case of the most recent public opposition, those who support such actions have noted that, in the case of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, there was no 'target' for a legal declaration of war, rather political groups or individuals. On the other hand many argue that since an invading army seeks to occupy and cause havoc to a target country and its population and not just a political group or individual, the aforementioned justification is tenuous at best.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declara..._United_States
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  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    It is right there on the bottom of the chart in your link. Operation Iraqi Freedom.
  13. #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    It is right there on the bottom of the chart in your link. Operation Iraqi Freedom.
    yeah in the 'Military engagements authorized by Congress' section, not in the 'Formal declarations of war' section..
    "Many times, the United States has engaged in extended military engagements that, while not formally declared wars, were explicitly authorized by Congress, short of a formal declaration of war."
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  14. #174  
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolkiT
    yeah in the 'Military engagements authorized by Congress' section, not in the 'Formal declarations of war' section..
    "Many times, the United States has engaged in extended military engagements that, while not formally declared wars, were explicitly authorized by Congress, short of a formal declaration of war."
    ahh, i see what you mean

    Well, i still plan to see what i can do to clean house in congress this year.
  15. #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Right... remember all those Democrats that voted to give him carte blanche.
    I remember them. And I remember the 20 who voted against.
    I seem to recall only one republican?
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I remember them. And I remember the 20 who voted against.
    I seem to recall only one republican?
    The funny part is literally trying to point fingers and say "he wanted it too" when the **** hits the fan. As if that made it ok.

    They will all be sent packing very soon, mark my words.
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    #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    The funny part is literally trying to point fingers and say "he wanted it too" when the **** hits the fan. As if that made it ok.

    They will all be sent packing very soon, mark my words.
    Maybe we should just scrap the whole lot and let the UN run things!
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Maybe we should just scrap the whole lot and let the UN run things!
    Right, that's what I said.

    It makes it easier to win an argument wen you define both sides.
  19. #179  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Micael
    Maybe we should just scrap the whole lot and let the UN run things!


    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Right, that's what I said.


    It makes it easier to win an argument wen you define both sides.
    Wonderful; the UN response to all things third world:

    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Micael
    Maybe we should just scrap the whole lot and let the UN run things!

    Wonderful; the UN response to all things third world:
    Now if someone would just throw in a comment about Dan Rather, this Treo Central thread would be perfect.
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