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  1.    #1  
    Why is that Communism fears Christianity and the free press, but not Islam?
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    #2  
    great question, shopharim! looking forward to hearing the responses to this one.
    I gotta have more cowbell
  3. #3  
    Activist Thinks Christianity May End Chinese Communism

    Some Thoughts
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  4. #4  
    I don't know that this is necessarily true, shop. Muslims in Central Asia and the Caucasus saw waves of persecution interrupted only by periods of appeasement where the Soviets switched to the "divide and conquer" strategy (arguably more efficient) through the 1960's. They gave Sovietized Sufis in the West and Sunnis in the South government positions and even "blessed" their Imams with official status in an effort to convert the rest of the Muslims to Communism. The biggest difference, I believe, between the Muslims and the Orthodox Christians who saw much more persecution was that the Muslims lived in the outer areas of the republic where they could do less harm. Plus, the Orthodox had a double hit; they were not only God-fearers, they were symbols of the tsarist rule.

    Now, in non-Soviet controlled countries, the Communists saw Muslims as a means to and end. It is still the same today. Communists and Leftists see in Muslims a group of people being oppressed by the capitalist West, so they court them. But Muslims should make no mistake. Both groups believe, as they always have, that the Muslim God is a myth and a impediment to true progress. If the power of Christianity could even be abolished, Islam would see itself as the next target.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Why is that Communism fears Christianity and the free press, but not Islam?
    Why is it that you keep beating up your mother?

    First you have to substantiate your statement, else you are just setting up a straw man.

    Surur
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I don't know that this is necessarily true, shop. Muslims in Central Asia and the Caucasus saw waves of persecution interrupted only by periods of appeasement where the Soviets switched to the "divide and conquer" strategy (arguably more efficient) through the 1960's. They gave Sovietized Sufis in the West and Sunnis in the South government positions and even "blessed" their Imams with official status in an effort to convert the rest of the Muslims to Communism. The biggest difference, I believe, between the Muslims and the Orthodox Christians who saw much more persecution was that the Muslims lived in the outer areas of the republic where they could do less harm. Plus, the Orthodox had a double hit; they were not only God-fearers, they were symbols of the tsarist rule.

    Now, in non-Soviet controlled countries, the Communists saw Muslims as a means to and end. It is still the same today. Communists and Leftists see in Muslims a group of people being oppressed by the capitalist West, so they court them. But Muslims should make no mistake. Both groups believe, as they always have, that the Muslim God is a myth and a impediment to true progress.
    this is mostly true in regards to the former Soviet Union.

    The major exception then and especially now being the Chechens.

    Stalin managed to successfully neuter almost every group, including any imaginable religious opposition.(those too dumb or brave to not keep their thoughts inside their skulls and their praise for father Stalin loud and passionate, had time for meditation at state expense in the gulags.)

    Even after nikita kruschev's reforms people largely kept within the rules.

    But russian communism is long gone -- why mention it ?? And there's no such thing as Chinese communism.

    Maybe I'm wrong -- someone please educate me as to the ideology of Chinese communism -- wasn't it something about getting rich and staying powerful ???
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    But russian communism is long gone -- why mention it ?? And there's no such thing as Chinese communism.

    Maybe I'm wrong -- someone please educate me as to the ideology of Chinese communism -- wasn't it something about getting rich and staying powerful ???
    I wish we could all be so certain that Russian Communism was gone. But at any rate, Communism as an ideology is not gone. There's still that pathetic group who thinks that the only reason it failed everywhere its been tried is that it wasn't "done right".
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I wish we could all be so certain that Russian Communism was gone. But at any rate, Communism as an ideology is not gone. There's still that pathetic group who thinks that the only reason it failed everywhere its been tried is that it wasn't "done right".
    you're right -- them and the neo-cons ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    you're right -- them and the neo-cons ...
    Oh, regarding the Chinese, you're right that Communism has been fairly watered-down in China. But its nonetheless left in its wake a very strong and entrenched totalitarian regime thats suspicious of anything that would rival its power (religions included). Unfortunately for them, its also left in its wake a large number of disillusioned Chinese who are looking for something beyond the pragmatism of their fathers.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Oh, regarding the Chinese, you're right that Communism has been fairly watered-down in China. But its nonetheless left in its wake a very strong and entrenched totalitarian regime thats suspicious of anything that would rival its power (religions included). Unfortunately for them, its also left in its wake a large number of disillusioned Chinese who are looking for something beyond the pragmatism of their fathers.
    I regard myself as an expert on Chinese communism -- having tried several times in the last few years to unsuccessfulluy seduce a wide range of brilliant and hot Chinese commie princesses...
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/05/2006 at 02:21 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  11. #11  
    ... what I've learnt (aside from there being a dangerous shortage of luv for the BARYE) -- is that the Chinese are sometimes actually more nationalistic and jingoistic than americans. They're genuinely proud of China and respect and give credit to the commies for what success china has achieved.

    This is true even of dissenters who aren't planning to return for awhile.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I regard myself as an expert on Chinese communism -- having tried several times in the lst few years to unsuccessfulluy seduce a wide range of brilliant and hot Chinese commie princesses.
    Then you'll see the truth in what I say. Oh, by the way, you may want to stick to the girls in your league. I hear there are some cute girls working at the new coffee houses.

    Getting back on topic, the Chinese haven't been altogether kind to the Uyghar Muslims in Xinjiang. Unfortunately, from what I can tell, the history that we get is pretty much the PRC revised version which basically says that there was a peaceful takeover of the Uyghar regions by the Red Army. Um, yeah, anyway, recent bombings bring into question the peacefulness of things.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Then you'll see the truth in what I say. Oh, by the way, you may want to stick to the girls in your league. I hear there are some cute girls working at the new coffee houses.

    Getting back on topic, the Chinese haven't been altogether kind to the Uyghar Muslims in Xinjiang. Unfortunately, from what I can tell, the history that we get is pretty much the PRC revised version which basically says that there was a peaceful takeover of the Uyghar regions by the Red Army. Um, yeah, anyway, recent bombings bring into question the peacefulness of things.
    I once shared a chat with my ex, clairegrrl, about how nasty the chinese are to their moslems.

    She harshly upbraided me -- told me that the Chinese and the Iranians were getting into bed together anyway, that there weren't nothin I could do about it -- something about the Chinese liking it swarthy ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/05/2006 at 09:38 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14. #14  
    ... she maybe was referring to the oil -- not sure though ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/05/2006 at 03:33 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    ... you may want to stick to the girls in your league...
    I don't think you're very understanding, hoovs -- I've relaxed my standards, I no longer demand a PHD, and I'm now willing to accept girls up to and including the age of 29.

    Chinese girls are supposed to appreciate the kind of wisdom, dignity, and experience that someone like me absorbs over a couple of centuries.

    And its not like I've not been willing myself to change either. Though I was initially reluctant because it made me feel a liitle gay or like a metrosexual -- I admit I've begun to shave my ****. (don't tell anyone...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/05/2006 at 09:42 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I once shared a chat with my ex, clairegrrl, about how nasty the chinese are to their moslems.

    She harshly reproached me -- told me that the Chinese and the Iranians were getting into bed together anyway, that there weren't nothin I could do about it -- something about the Chinese liking it swarthy ...
    Not quite the same thing. China will play nice nice with Iran because China wants the oil and has little conscience about how to get it. Oh, and if Iran gets the bomb then that's just one more pointed at the US that China won't have to expend. But if Iran were ever under the umbrella of the PRC, they would suddenly learn China's version of religious freedoms.
  17.    #17  
    Why is it that you keep beating up your mother?

    First you have to substantiate your statement, else you are just setting up a straw man.

    Surur
    I woke up this morning looking forward to the replies. Then I realized I didn't make a case.

    I was thinking about current events surrounding Iran. It intrigues me that China in particular would buddy up with a religious regime given the way it treats religion in its own territory. Somehow, it allies with an Islamic state while it persecutes christians and journalists (as we have discussed here before) and others.

    I figure mutual disdain is for the US is a bigger factor. Or perhaps, each (Iran and China) thinks it can defeat the other once this relationship of conenience has run its course.
  18. #18  
    You are reading too much into it. The USA is partnered with Saudi Arabia, and they are not religious fundamentalist terorists (yet).

    Its all about resources in the end.

    Surur
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    You are reading too much into it. The USA is partnered with Saudi Arabia, and they are not religious fundamentalist terorists (yet).

    Its all about resources in the end.

    Surur
    Perhaps, I am. That's why I thought I'd pose the question to our TC roundtable. But, I do find the alliance intriguing, and a bit alarming (I'm still deciding if I want to discuss why I find it alarming).
  20. #20  
    That sounds intruiging. Please do!

    Surur

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