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  1.    #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Well they moved the press conference to inside rather than in the Rose Garden. Wonder Why? Maybe protesters could be heard.

    This whole stunt of theirs is going to blow up in their faces. Republicans don't belong in the bedrooms and private lives of Americans.
    Well remember, this was not the original strategy. This is Carl Rove's backup plan, and it is a desperate one.
  2.    #22  
    GOP plans votes on favored causes
    Moves will bolster party's voter base, strategists say
    By James Kuhnhenn, Knight Ridder | June 5, 2006


    WASHINGTON -- When President Bush beat Senator John F. Kerry in 2004, Republicans said a ballot initiative in Ohio to ban gay marriage sealed the election, drawing legions of conservatives to the polls.
    When President Bush beat Senator John F. Kerry in 2004, Republicans said a ballot initiative in Ohio to ban gay marriage sealed the election, drawing legions of conservatives to the polls.

    Bush and Republican senators now will seek another dose of conservative magic to energize their party's base.

    Call it nostalgia -- or election-year jitters.

    This week's expected detour into some of the party's favorite social causes comes as Congress is locked in a stalemate over immigration policy, paralyzed over ethics legislation, and flummoxed by the Iraq war.

    On Saturday, Bush urged support for a national ban on gay marriage, saying that the bond between a wife and a husband ``promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society."

    Today, the president plans to meet at the White House with opponents of gay marriage, just as the Senate begins debate on a constitutional amendment to limit marriage to the union of a man and a woman.

    A Senate vote on the issue is expected Wednesday.

    Next, Senate majority leader Bill Frist, Republican of Tennessee, wants votes on two perennial conservative causes: repealing the estate tax and giving Congress the constitutional authority to ban flag burning.

    None of the measures is expected to pass, although the estate tax debate could yield a compromise that applies the tax only to the largest inheritances.

    Despite the futility of the gay marriage and flag burning votes, some Republican strategists said they were just the jolt that conservative voters needed to overcome what polls suggest is their growing antipathy toward the party.

    ``Every time you have that conversation it reminds [voters] of what team they're on," said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform and a prominent voice in conservative circles.

    ``I can't believe the American people can't see through this," Senator Joseph Biden, Democrat of Delaware, said yesterday on NBC's ``Meet the Press."

    ``We already have a law, the Defense of Marriage Act. . . . Nobody has violated that law," Biden said. ``There's been no challenge to that law. Why do we need a constitutional amendment?"

    ``I think this just highlights the fact they have no intention, they have no plan, to deal with healthcare," Biden said. ``They have no plan to deal with our national security. They have no plan to deal with the energy crisis."
  3. Micael's Avatar
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    #23  
    Everyone is chiming in with "it's just a tactic", and I agree its a weak one... but I'm not so certain that it will be ineffective. Nor am I so sure that only the "far right zealots" are interested. I don't have moveon.org bookmarks like theBlaze, but I think a majority of states have amended their own constitutions in the last few years against gay marriage.

    For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would "want" to be married, but thats another debate.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    Everyone is chiming in with "it's just a tactic", and I agree its a weak one... but I'm not so certain that it will be ineffective. Nor am I so sure that only the "far right zealots" are interested. I don't have moveon.org bookmarks like theBlaze, but I think a majority of states have amended their own constitutions in the last few years against gay marriage.

    For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would "want" to be married, but thats another debate.
    Actually, they're 'paying the piper' for using the tactic in '04. The Religious Right know they were "motivated" with this issue in '04 and then the Busg admin dropped it after the election. It's less to motivate the base than to appease the Religious Right which has been vocal about the issue.

    You can see the same gathering of the strays in the pandering to the MilitiaMen types who were raising stink over the lack of immigration enforcement. The Minutemen demanded troops be put on the border and as the polls went down, the Busg admin finally places reserve troops.

    We'll see what they trot out closer to the election to energize their base. I doubt it will be flag burning, unless they can get some juicy video of someone burning a flag (Rove in disguise perhaps) to whipi up those rabid righties.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Actually, they're 'paying the piper' for using the tactic in '04. The Religious Right know they were "motivated" with this issue in '04 and then the Busg admin dropped it after the election. It's less to motivate the base than to appease the Religious Right which has been vocal about the issue.

    You can see the same gathering of the strays in the pandering to the MilitiaMen types who were raising stink over the lack of immigration enforcement. The Minutemen demanded troops be put on the border and as the polls went down, the Busg admin finally places reserve troops.

    We'll see what they trot out closer to the election to energize their base. I doubt it will be flag burning, unless they can get some juicy video of someone burning a flag (Rove in disguise perhaps) to whipi up those rabid righties.
    Which political tools will the republicans use this fall?
    A) Racism
    B) Patriotism
    C) Religion
    D) All of the above

    I guess "D"
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by cellmatrix
    Which political tools will the republicans use this fall?
    A) Racism
    B) Patriotism
    C) Religion
    D) All of the above

    I guess "D"
    traitor
  7. #27  
    its a BFO - blinding flash of the obvious.
  8. NRG
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    No...we just have hi-end places that not only craft their beers, but craft their pizzas
    Ah, we have a place or two like that here in Tampa. I like a place called Tampa Bay Brewing Company, which is in Ybor City. They have got a really nice, hoppy, IPA, and other brews of choice (website: http://www.tampabaybrewingcompany.com/ ). As far as pizza goes may I suggest the Brewer's Choice. And I agree they can get a little pricey @ times if you start adding more on to it.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by Micael
    For the life of me, I can't figure out why anyone would "want" to be married, but thats another debate.
    Benefits, certain rights, some insurance, etc. Most can be done with a Power of Attorney and Will, but many can't. This is from a couple of lesbian groups... I don't know either way, as I'm not married or gay, so I've not really looked into the issue.

    I could really give a sh*t who marries who... long as they pay taxes and contribute to society, f it. Unlike those idiots getting married to several women and putting them on welfare for me to take care of....
  10. #30  
    I am a die-hard liberal. But a few talking points puzzle me. If gay marriage is made a right (like most liberals, including me, want), how would we (government, society) oppose consenual poligamy or consensual incest? on what LOGICAL basis?

    Should we oppose those things?
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  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    I am a die-hard liberal. But a few talking points puzzle me. If gay marriage is made a right (like most liberals, including me, want), how would we (government, society) oppose consenual poligamy or consensual incest? on what LOGICAL basis?

    Should we oppose those things?
    There are separate arguements against polygamy based on the issues and rights bestowed by being married. A simplistic example would be would your spouse wnat to be kept on life support? 2 wives say yes and 2 say no.
  12. #32  
    You could not argue against polygamy, and it certainly has a lot of biblical support too. incest is medically ill advised, so it could be a "think of the children!!!" issue.

    Surur
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    You could not argue against polygamy, and it certainly has a lot of biblical support too. incest is medically ill advised, so it could be a "think of the children!!!" issue.
    Surur
    Not all hetro marriages are good for children. Women at high risk for children with birth defects are not prohibited by law from having kids.

    What if the consensual incestual couple agreed to not have children?

    The logical reason behind "everyone has equal rights" and "all consnting behaviour should be OK" still applies to these situations. I want to stay away from any religious nonsense here. Just the balance between individual rights and Govt. imposition/control.
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  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    I am a die-hard liberal. But a few talking points puzzle me. If gay marriage is made a right (like most liberals, including me, want), how would we (government, society) oppose consenual poligamy or consensual incest? on what LOGICAL basis?

    Should we oppose those things?
    Legalization of polygamy, incest, child molestation and even bestiality is the agenda. "Gay marriage" is just a step along that path.

    It is interesting that a liberal is talking about logical standards. There may be hope yet.
    Last edited by 1911sforever; 06/05/2006 at 08:09 PM.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Legalization of polygamy, incest, child molestation and even bestiality is the agenda. "Gay marriage" is just a step along that path.

    It is interesting that a liberal is talking about logical standards. There may be hope yet.
    The labels are somewhat mixed .. But as an atheist, being logical is my absolute goal.
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  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    The labels are somewhat mixed .. But as an atheist, being logical is my absolute goal.
    You'd be one step closer to being logical if you dumped atheism for agnosticism.
  17. #37  
    Again, are you unsure of the existence of Santa, and do you keep open the possibility that your christmas presents really did come down te chimney?

    Surur
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Legalization of polygamy, incest, child molestation and even bestiality is the agenda. "Gay marriage" is just a step along that path.
    One can only wonder how some people cannot see why child molestation is a category totally different from gay marriage (or gay sex). I sometimes suspect it is because some people lack the concept of "consensual sex" or "consenting adults".
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
  19. #39  
    Right. Polygamy is between consenting adults. There is a movement afoot in this country to drammatically lower the age of consent. (The ACLU defends NAMBLA.) Why should we discriminate if a brother and sister find true love in each other? What kind of bigot would deny them happiness!
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Why should we discriminate if a brother and sister find true love in each other? What kind of bigot would deny them happiness!
    As most people know, the offspring of closely related parents has a much higher risk for hereditary diseases. That's a sound and logical reason for making incest illegal.

    Apart from that, incest is mostly sexual abuse of minors, not brother and sister planning to marry.
    “Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.” (Philip K. ****)
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