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  1. #141  
    Right, they killed one militant (i.e. insurgent). If civilians hang out with the terrorists they will be killed.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Right, they killed one militant (i.e. insurgent). If civilians hang out with the terrorists they will be killed.
    I pointed to this type of example in post #122 that he Surur ignored and never responeded to.
  3. #143  
    I did not think it was worth responding to. A 1:8 kill ratio of militants to civilians are obviously well within your formal rules of engagement, considering the 30 000+ civilians killed already.

    You guys so blightly ignore the INEVITABLE civilian deaths that your unnecessary war would cause, saying its less than usual.

    These deaths were explicit at the start of the action. Were they a necessarily evil then?

    Surur
    Last edited by surur; 06/04/2006 at 05:41 AM.
  4. #144  
    Then I expect your team to respect that as well, but they don't they kill Iraqi's and would kill civilians if walking next to an American soldier. You truly speak and have opinions coming out of both sides of your mouth.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I did not think it was worth responding to. A 1:8 kill ratio of militants to civilians are obviously well within your formal rules of engagement, considering the 30 000+ civilians killed already.

    You guys so blightly ignore the INEVITABLE civilian deaths that your unnecessary war would cause, saying its less than usual.

    These deaths were explicit at the start of the action. Were they a necessarily evil then?

    Surur
  5. #145  
    I think I have discovered our problem. As you should know by now, I am a moral relativist. I judge the Americans by their standards, and the resistance by theirs.

    Now if you want to be judged by Al Queda's standards, just say so. I'll say "At least they are not as bad as Al Queda. They caused the death of more, but their goals seem better".

    Surur
  6. #146  
    surur:
    i find you to be a very thoughtful individual even if I don't share all your opinions.
  7. #147  
    Thanks surur, uhh perditac. Nice thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by perditac
    surur:
    i find you to be a very thoughtful individual even if I don't share all your opinions.
  8. #148  
    Surur's heroes risk their lives to pull 21 civilians off a bus and murder them. Ahhh, the Mujahideen to save Iraq by killing Iraqi's. What a religion Gunmen in Iraq drag riders off buses, kill 21
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I did not think it was worth responding to. A 1:8 kill ratio of militants to civilians are obviously well within your formal rules of engagement, considering the 30 000+ civilians killed already.

    These deaths were explicit at the start of the action. Were they a necessarily evil then?

    Surur
    Do you even know who killed 90% of the 30,000 civilians? Terrorists. The side you support!!!! You again twist facts by your terrorist sympathetic logic to suite your indefensible arguments.

    If you are so mad that 30,000 civilians have been killed why are you not yelling at the ones who are killing them every day!!!!!!!!! THE TERRORIST!!! Why are you not mad at the ones who are setting bombs on the road side for civilians to be killed by???? Why are you not mad with the ones who are blowing up shopping centers and hotels that are filled with the civilians you are so upset have been killed in Iraq????? Because it is the terrorists....the ones you support!!!!

    This is your logic:
    • Terrorists do not like USA.
    • USA in Iraq.
    • Terrorists Kill Iraqi Muslim innocent mom shopping with her kids because USA is in Iraq.
    • Terrorists kidnap innocent reporters and saw off their heads on video tape because USA is in Iraq.
    • Terrorists bomb wedding in a hotel because they are upset with USA in Iraq.
    • Justified killing innocent men, women, and children because USA invaded Iraq.


    This is your "moral relativist" morality.

    Bottom line you support killing children, sawing off innocent people heads, bombing shopping centers and resteraunts....for a personal agenda!
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Do you even know who killed 90% of the 30,000 civilians? Terrorists. The side you support!!!! You again twist facts by your terrorist sympathetic logic to suite your indefensible arguments.

    If you are so mad that 30,000 civilians have been killed why are you not yelling at the ones who are killing them every day!!!!!!!!! THE TERRORIST!!! Why are you not mad at the ones who are setting bombs on the road side for civilians to be killed by???? Why are you not mad with the ones who are blowing up shopping centers and hotels that are filled with the civilians you are so upset have been killed in Iraq????? Because it is the terrorists....the ones you support!!!!

    This is your logic:
    • Terrorists do not like USA.
    • USA in Iraq.
    • Terrorists Kill Iraqi Muslim innocent mom shopping with her kids because USA is in Iraq.
    • Terrorists kidnap innocent reporters and saw off their heads on video tape because USA is in Iraq.
    • Terrorists bomb wedding in a hotel because they are upset with USA in Iraq.
    • Justified killing innocent men, women, and children because USA invaded Iraq.


    This is your "moral relativist" morality.

    Bottom line you support killing children, sawing off innocent people heads, bombing shopping centers and resteraunts....for a personal agenda!
    First Hobbes, I hardly ever get mad. Secondarily, many thousands of that 30 000 were killed directly by American munitions. Lastly, the ongoing deaths in Iraq were foreseen before the war, and despite you blaming it on terrorists, the simple fact is that these terrorists were not there before the war, but as predicted popped up afterward. The anti-war movement were not wise after the fact, but well before. Only the American administration (and you) appears were surprised by the outcome. As Bush said, "Mistakes were made". Maybe if he listened more he would make less mistakes.

    Regarding your little list, its a gross simplification of the issues. However if your understanding is limited to that list I can see how you find what is happening in Iraq confusing and unpredictable.

    Surur
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    #151  
    Hrm... nobody post this followup?

    http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.ph...3-015951-3247r
  12. #152  
    Its a follow-up to a different killing, and the results are being challenged byt the Iraqi's. The PRPRPR $damage$ $has$ $already$ $been$ $done$.

    Surur
  13. Micael's Avatar
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    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Its a follow-up to a different killing, and the results are being challenged byt the Iraqi's. The PRPRPR $damage$ $has$ $already$ $been$ $done$.

    Surur
    Got what you wanted then. Good for you.
  14. #154  
    Not worried about PRPRPR, $worried$ $about$ $facts$. $Your$ $muslim$ $murdering$ $thug$ $friends$ $have$ $killed$ $as$ $many$ $innocents$ $in$ $the$ $last$ $24$ $hours$.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Its a follow-up to a different killing, and the results are being challenged byt the Iraqi's. The PRPRPR $damage$ $has$ $already$ $been$ $done$.

    Surur
  15. #155  
    Thank you.

    Surur
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    First Hobbes, I hardly ever get mad. Secondarily, many thousands of that 30 000 were killed directly by American munitions. Lastly, the ongoing deaths in Iraq were foreseen before the war, and despite you blaming it on terrorists, the simple fact is that these terrorists were not there before the war, but as predicted popped up afterward. The anti-war movement were not wise after the fact, but well before. Only the American administration (and you) appears were surprised by the outcome. As Bush said, "Mistakes were made". Maybe if he listened more he would make less mistakes.
    As I have posted several times over, the terrorist challenges were no surprise to me, and would have been the same or worse if the situation was in Syria or Iran. I never denied there were civilian causualties by US troops....that is a fact of any war....that happens when terrorists use them as human shields. I even agreed in my last statement that thousands of the 30,000 were killed by US troops. Even if we are responsible for up to 10,000, a responsbility the US must accept and recognize.....then still 2/3 thirds, 20,000, were by terrorists. And you still did not say anything about that.
    You deny to recognize that the greatest steps in the history of the world were taken to minize civilian causalities during this campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Regarding your little list, its a gross simplification of the issues. However if your understanding is limited to that list I can see how you find what is happening in Iraq confusing and unpredictable.

    Surur
    I did not take a simplistic view...I only summarized what you have already posted in the Muslim Hypocrisy thread. For those who maybe reading this thread who missed what I am referring to, I will quote below where Surur claims he support terrorist activities that target and kill innocent men, women, and children:

    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Surur, No I am not late as I have already answered this several times over in this thread and in others about my view of past actions, both bad and good of the USA.

    I simply noticed again that you totally avoided the current accountability of all the killings I listed again that terrorist are conducting right now today. Again.....you support lack of accountability to step up and say that the following is wrong:
    Quote:Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    Yup, I have no doubt that it did. Just like it sucks TODAY
    • to be a child blown up because you wanted a chocolate bar from a soldier,
    • or blown to 30 pieces over 50 sq yards with the rest of your family because you wanted to take celebrate your son's birthday by going out to a nice dinner,
    • or being blown up on your wedding day 20 minutes after the ceremony,
    • or having your head slowing sawed off by hand because you committed the fatal crime of being a reporter,
      or blown to into a pink mist because you were trying to be friendly to the enviroment and decided to ride the bus to work that day,
    • or to have 23 pieces of shrapnel projected through your body by a road side bomb set by other citizens of your own country......
    You continually claim that what the USA has done is bad....which I have not refuted. But I have also recognized that we have often times tried to recognize those mistakes. I also recognize that the USA does a lot of good, which you generally dismiss.

    If it looks like a duck.......I point out that terrorist are doing worst things today on purpose and publicly acknowledging they are trying to target and kill innocent civilians as a general policy with a political and religious goal for justification. And every time you make an excuse why it is right for them to kill.

    If it walks like a duck......SURUR.....YOU SUPPORT KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS BY ISLAMIC EXTREME TERRORIST MEANS AND METHODS. You sympathy with all the excuses of why it is Okay to kill children. Why they are justified to kill women. And why they have a RIGHT to kill innocent men.

    If it quacks like a duck......So after multiple opportunities I have given you to acknowledge that the terrorists killing innocent people are wrong you have avoided it with reasons why they need to be ignored, forgiven, sympathized with, excused, a right to act as such, ignorant to the point they don't know what they are doing.

    Then it must be a duck......I am left with the only conclusion that you are either one of three things:
    • A member of a current terrorist organization
    • A wannabe member of a terrorist organization
    • A sympathizer for members of a terrorist organization

    Source Post: http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...&postcount=899
    Surur's response:
    Quote Originally Posted by surur

    I do support people fighting for their home-land whichever way they can. If this means blowing up busses and restaurants to make Israel less palatable for the Jewish immigrants, so be it. If they did not want a fight they should not have stolen the land. If it means slitting some-one's throat on TV to make foreign contractors think twice before entering Iraq and providing logistical support to American troops and their collaborators, so be it .

    SOURCE POST: http://discuss.treocentral.com/showp...&postcount=901
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/05/2006 at 12:11 PM.
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    As I have posted several times over, the terrorist challenges were no surprise to me, and would have been the same or worse if the situation was in Syria or Iran. I never denied there were civilian causualties by US troops....that is a fact of any war....that happens when terrorists use them as human shields. I even agreed in my last statement that thousands of the 30,000 were killed by US troops. Even if we are responsible for up to 10,000, a responsbility the US must accept and recognize.....then still 2/3 thirds, 20,000, were by terrorists. And you still did not say anything about that.
    You deny to recognize that the greatest steps in the history of the world were taken to minize civilian causalities during this campaign.
    A) If you wanted to minimize civilian casualties BOTH due to your own bullets AND the turmoil which you EXPECTED to come from this action you would not have started in the first place. That is the point which you refuse to accept. And dont tell me about WMD. I like millions of other people never accepted the existence of these weapons and we were right. Undeniably right.

    B) My problem is not with the ending of the list but with the beginning. You dont think whole lot preceded:
    1. Terrorists do not like USA.
    2. USA in Iraq.
    3. Terrorists Kill Iraqi Muslim innocent mom shopping with her kids because USA is in Iraq.


    That the start of your list is so short indicated your lack of understanding of the antecedents of the situation in Iraq. That cant be very good for developing insight.

    Surur
  18. #158  
    Illogical once again. As you would say, not good for PRPRPR $killing$ $innocent$ $Iraqi$'$s$. $The$ $same$ $logic$ $would$ $have$ $a$ $joint$ $American$/$Saudi$ $military$ $team$ $to$ $kill$ $all$ $of$ $bin$ $Laden$'$s$ $family$, $albeit$ $they$ $are$ $innocent$. $The$ $main$ $difference$ $between$ $you$ $and$ $I$ $is$ $you$ $believe$ $in$ $murder$, $I$ $believe$ $in$ $war$. $Purposely$ $killing$ $innocent$ $people$ $is$ $not$ $war$.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    [*]Terrorists Kill Iraqi Muslim innocent mom shopping with her kids because USA is in Iraq.[/list]

    Surur
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Illogical once again. As you would say, not good for PRPRPR $killing$ $innocent$ $Iraqi$'$s$. $The$ $same$ $logic$ $would$ $have$ $a$ $joint$ $American$/$Saudi$ $military$ $team$ $to$ $kill$ $all$ $of$ $bin$ $Laden$'$s$ $family$, $albeit$ $they$ $are$ $innocent$. $The$ $main$ $difference$ $between$ $you$ $and$ $I$ $is$ $you$ $believe$ $in$ $murder$, $I$ $believe$ $in$ $war$. $Purposely$ $killing$ $innocent$ $people$ $is$ $not$ $war$.
    Your semantics make little difference to the dead. You dont think the terrorists want to achieve their political objectives through violence. You think they dont think they are at war? Who were you targeting when you obliterated Hiroshima?

    Surur
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Thanks surur, uhh perditac. Nice thoughts.
    Advance, maybe perditac is actually Chickdance!
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