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  1. TomUps's Avatar
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    #121  
    Surur admits that if it takes a couple beheadings of innocent people to advance a cause it is acceptable. He admits that he believes that bombing innocent children and families in restaurants is a valid tactic to advance a cause.
    Thats why anything Surur says should be discounted. He supports beheadings of hostages. He smiles when babies are blown up in Tel Aviv, and then cries when theres a chance an innocent iraqi was killed by an American bullet. His hypocrisy is so amazing that its funny. We are all treo owners on this board, but Im ashamed to own the same cell phone as this deranged individual.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I fully support the underdogs here in their fight against the invaders. The news of these killings did not shock me. Like most Iraqis I fully expect this is just the tip of the icebreg, and that this goes on regularly, and goes regularly unpunished.

    Hobbes, the only difference between the people killed here and the ones killed by 'shock and awe' was that this was from closer range. Your government is as much as al queda in the business of intentionally killing people to generate fear.

    Surur
    Again the terrorist mentality shines through. AQ, terrorists in Iraq, Hamas, etc... intentionally target civilian restaurants, hotels, weddings, market places, kidnappings of innocents for the intent of beheading, etc... with the full purpose of targeting innocent men, women, and children....and you fully support that.

    During the "Shock & Awe" you mentioned it was the greatest conscious effort in history to limit civilian impact by only targeting military targets. They did not even attack the infrastructure as much as possible, even though it would have been the traditional "invaders" advantage.

    You twist any reasoning killing men, women, and children into a just cause....even though they have nothing to do with either side, besides were they were born. But only as long as long it is your side killing the innocent women and children and families.

    Then when a terrorist is attempted to be taken out, you out cry if extreme measures were taken to limit civilian liability but even though some occur....sometimes again because the terrorists are using innocents as human shields.

    The terrorist are killing men, women, and children on purpose with premeditated planing to further a personal agenda. We are killing targeted terrorists to stop them from killing innocent people.

    The difference that you will never recognize.......you support targeting and killing innocent people. The US campaign in Iraq has taken the most steps in the history of warfare to limit them.

    If a terrorist kills innocent children to comply with the mission statment or the org, orders given by those in charge, and the supported tactics deployed, do you cry foul play? NO....You support and cheer them on! But when 10 soldiers amongst hundreds of thousands are accused, not convicted, of killing innocent children against the directive of protecting innocent life that rules the forces......you judge everyone and cannot except the same thing you support on the other side.

    YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. Killing innocent women and children is either wrong for both sides or acceptable for both sides. You are hypocritical in your statements and are a perfect example of why negotiations will never work with terrorists, terrorist supporters, or terrorist sympathizers.
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 06/04/2006 at 01:40 AM.
  3. #123  
    But you supported insurgents prior to this alleged event. You are as I described earlier, a Muslim hypocrit hiding and enjoying the Western culture.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I fully support the underdogs here in their fight against the invaders. The news of these killings did not shock me. Like most Iraqis I fully expect this is just the tip of the icebreg, and that this goes on regularly, and goes regularly unpunished.

    Surur
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Funny that the rest of the world wasn't threatened by Saddam having nuclear weapons. One would have thought France and Russia, being geographically closer, would have been much more perturbed. I, like most anti-war people, were quite satisfied by the WMD inspector's efforts. I took their public reports much more seriously that the vague supposed intelligence which the Americans could not disclose to the public. The inspectors did not ask for war, they asked for more inspections. It was the whole war-happy gung-ho cowboy American attitude which resulted in the killing of 10 000's.

    They dont look less and less like a bastion for freedom and justice. America has confirmed their image as a brutal bully. Already the Iraqi's say about the killings "Isn't that what you expect from the Americans?"

    Surur
    Wow! Your hatred of America keeps shining through. I'm sorry that your disdain has so clouded your judgement. By the way, France and Russia were both benefitting from back-door deals with Iraq.
  5. #125  
    Surur,
    Do you also support the killing of Iraqi's by the insurgents? I am assuming yes since you said you support the underdog.
  6. #126  
    Yes, you can dismiss my views, but remember they are echoed through much of the Muslim world, and increasingly the rest of the world too (see survey from earlier in the thread). If you cant convince me your cause is just, imagine trying to convince some-one who's mother died in your latest bombing raid.

    Surur
  7. #127  
    Read my last question, curious on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Yes, you can dismiss my views, but remember they are echoed through much of the Muslim world, and increasingly the rest of the world too (see survey from earlier in the thread). If you cant convince me your cause is just, imagine trying to convince some-one who's mother died in your latest bombing raid.

    Surur
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I, like most anti-war people, were quite satisfied by the WMD inspector's efforts. I took their public reports much more seriously that the vague supposed intelligence which the Americans could not disclose to the public.

    Surur
    I'm also curious, Surur, how do you feel about the plight of the Christians in places like Sudan and Indonesia?
  9. #129  
    Thats actually pretty easy to blame on the Americans e.g. if America did not invade Iraq there would be no bombings in the streets of Baghdad.

    or..

    The turmoil, death and destruction that has been going on is funnily enough exactly what anti-war people predicted prior to the invasion, yet the American administration ignored this.

    When I watch sky news and the little banner scrolling along the bottom of the screen says 30 killed in Basra I simply sigh and think what would solve this. My answer is of course American withdrawal. When another American soldier gets killed and I ask what will prevent this, the answer is the same.

    Unless America introduces a police state (and even not then) they will never be able to eradicate the insurgency. The way to get out of this is to get out.

    Surur
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I'm also curious, Surur, how do you feel about the plight of the Christians in places like Sudan and Indonesia?
    More should be done about it. Its a reflection of the priorities of the world that no-one is seriously sorting it out.

    Surur
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    More should be done about it. Its a reflection of the priorities of the world that no-one is seriously sorting it out.

    Surur
    Would you feel that their uprising and killing of the Islamic authorities is justified?
  12. #132  
    So yes, you justify the insurgents killing innocent Iraqi's? I suppose their reason is propoganda, so the ignorant will feel it is the Americans faults.

    Folks here have a hard time with your thoughts b/c to us they just don't make sense, completely illogical.

    Would you commit a terrorist act in the name of Allah?

    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Thats actually pretty easy to blame on the Americans e.g. if America did not invade Iraq there would be no bombings in the streets of Baghdad.

    or..

    The turmoil, death and destruction that has been going on is funnily enough exactly what anti-war people predicted prior to the invasion, yet the American administration ignored this.

    When I watch sky news and the little banner scrolling along the bottom of the screen says 30 killed in Basra I simply sigh and think what would solve this. My answer is of course American withdrawal. When another American soldier gets killed and I ask what will prevent this, the answer is the same.

    Unless America introduces a police state (and even not then) they will never be able to eradicate the insurgency. The way to get out of this is to get out.

    Surur
  13. #133  
    Do you mean would I be perturbed by an oppressed people fighting back, the answer is of course not. Its important to understand that conflict is rarely about religion, but more often part of tribalism and sectarianism. Look for example at Northern Ireland, with different flavors of Christan's were killing each other, but it was really about land and different privileges.

    Surur
  14. #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Do you mean would I be perturbed by an oppressed people fighting back, the answer is of course not. Its important to understand that conflict is rarely about religion, but more often part of tribalism and sectarianism. Look for example at Northern Ireland, with different flavors of Christan's were killing each other, but it was really about land and different privileges.

    Surur
    Not being perturbed is a far cry from supporting them. You support the actions of the insurgents in Iraq. Is there a double standard here?
  15. #135  
    I would not of course. The extent of my commitment is arguing here with you. I live a quite life working as a valued professional. I'm not part of any secret organization, or public or private movement. I dont make donations to any organization, and spend my money on tech toys. I however have cultural affiliations with Muslims, and I understand their world view. There are obviously people who take the whole conflict a whole lot more personal than me, and some who feel prompted to act upon those feelings.

    Surur
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I would not of course. The extent of my commitment is arguing here with you. I live a quite life working as a valued professional. I'm not part of any secret organization, or public or private movement. I however have cultural affiliations with Muslims, and I understand their world view. There are obviously people who take the whole conflict a whole lot more personal than me, and some who feel prompted to act upon those feelings.

    Surur
    I'm not accusing you of anything except hypocrisy. You aren't anti-war, just anti-American involvement in the ME. And you're not on the side of the underdog or else you'd support the idea of Christians rising up against Muslim oppression.
  17. #137  
    Well, I dont have ant affiliation with them, so of course I dont go around promoting their cause. On the other hand I would not condemn them for fighting back, unlike you.

    Surur
  18. #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Well, I dont have ant affiliation with them, so of course I dont go around promoting their cause. On the other hand I would not condemn them for fighting back, unlike you.

    Surur
    So don't promote yourself as "anti-war" when you're just pro-Muslim.
  19. #139  
    When i say anti-war I mean anti the Iraq war of course. I never said i was a pacifist. The so-called "anti-war movement" isn't about all war forever, its about America's misguided self-serving unilateral wars. If you attacked Korea the world would react similarly.

    Surur
  20. #140  
    Iraq rejects US probe clearing troops of killingsSat 3 Jun 2006 6:24 AM ET
    By Mariam Karouny and Fredrik Dahl

    BAGHDAD, June 3 (Reuters) - Iraq vowed on Saturday to press on with its own probe into the deaths of civilians in a U.S. raid on the town of Ishaqi, rejecting the U.S. military's exoneration of its forces.

    Adnan al-Kazimi, an aide to Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, said the government would also demand an apology from the United States and compensation for the victims in several cases, including the alleged massacre in the town of Haditha last year.

    "We have from more than one source that the Ishaqi killings were carried out under questionable circumstances. More than one child was killed. This report was not fair for the Iraqi people and the children who were killed," he told Reuters.

    The U.S. military had issued a statement about Ishaqi saying allegations that U.S. troops "executed a family ... and then hid the alleged crimes by directing an air strike, are absolutely false".

    It said troops had been fired on as they raided a house to arrest an al Qaeda suspect. They returned fire and called in air support, which destroyed the building, killing one militant and resulting in "up to nine collateral deaths".

    The military had previously said one guerrilla, two women and a child were killed in the March 15 raid in Ishaqi, 60 miles (100 km) north of Baghdad.

    It has repeatedly pledged to punish any soldier found guilty of atrocities in Iraq, but the decision to clear the troops in Ishaqi fuelled deep mistrust among ordinary Iraqis three years after the U.S.-led invasion to oust Saddam Hussein.

    Police in Ishaqi say five children, four women and two men were shot in the head, and that the bodies, with hands bound, were dumped in one room before the house was blown up.



    WIDESPREAD SUSPICION

    Maliki, who took office two weeks ago at the helm of a U.S- backed national unity government, is battling a widespread public perception that U.S. troops can shoot and kill with impunity and Iraqi leaders are too weak to do anything about it.

    "Ishaqi is just another reason why we shouldn't trust the Americans," said Abdullah Hussein, an engineer in Baghdad.

    "First they lied about the weapons of mass destruction, then there was the Abu Ghraib prison abuse scandal and now it's clear to the world they were guilty in Haditha," he told Reuters.

    A tribal leader in Ishaqi said it was clear that U.S. forces were above the law in Iraq.

    "We expect the American soldiers to commit any crime to control this country," added Sarhan Jasim, 55.

    Human Rights Minister Wijdan Michael said her ministry would send a fact-finding commission to Ishaqi in the next few days.

    The incident was one of a handful involving civilian deaths being investigated by the U.S. military, including the deaths of two dozen civilians in the town of Haditha on Nov. 19.

    U.S. officials say murder charges may be brought against Marines after the probe into Haditha, which some commentators are comparing to the 1968 My Lai massacre in Vietnam.

    Maliki this week condemned the suspected massacre in Haditha as a "terrible crime" and demanded that the United States hand over the files on the investigation.

    White House spokesman Tony Snow said U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad and the top U.S. commander in Iraq, General George Casey, met Maliki in Baghdad on Friday and promised to give him all the evidence and materials from the Haditha probe.

    In the statement about Ishaqi, Major General William Caldwell, the U.S. military spokesman, said the investigation showed that the ground commander "operated in accordance with the rules of engagement governing our combat forces in Iraq."

    One man in the town, 40-year-old Obeid Kamil, said on Friday that U.S. soldiers had a "licence to kill" Iraqi civilians.

    "Their action is always to open fire and kill people, which is proof that they are afraid," he said.


    (Additional reporting by Reuters Television and Ahmed Rasheed and Michael Georgy, writing by Fredrik Dahl)
    http://today.reuters.com/News/Crises...ryId=L03694020

    See, its not just my perception.

    Surur
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