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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    You did say "fact", did you not?
    Yea, but not to a conclusion, rather to the reports of accusations.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    How quickly they forget.
    Forget what?
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea, but not to a conclusion, rather to the reports of accusations.
    Why would unproven reports be any commentary on the condition of our troops? Perhaps the fact that they're getting blasted on the media every day has something to do with their morale as well. No?
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Forget what?
    1991
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by LupineSpecimen1
    How do you know this? Are you currently in Iraq monitoring each and every battallion?

    If this were the case though, why are re-enlistment rates at an all-time high and why are desertions at an all-time low?
    I think re-enlistment rates are high because these guys want to stick with their buddies through this. And if you told them they were going home tomorrow you wouldn't find any clamoring to stay there and finish some etheral job.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I think re-enlistment rates are high because these guys want to stick with their buddies through this.


    You haven't been in the military have you?
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by LupineSpecimen1


    You haven't been in the military have you?
    Nope.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Nope.
    Well take my word for it then, you are quite wrong here.
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    1991
    The invasion of Kuwait which was addressed by the US and crippling sanctions and the depravation of the upper most third of an entire nation?
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by LupineSpecimen1
    Well take my word for it then, you are quite wrong here.
    So the re-enlistment rates are high because the soldiers on the ground believe in the mission which they believe to be retaliation for the 9-11 attacks?

    Is that not a bit on the sad side?
  11. #71  
    You guys want to talk of being dilusional:

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    I think re-enlistment rates are high because these guys want to stick with their buddies through this.
    This is an absolute dilusion in order to support his own point of view. All he knows is that the re-enlistment rates are high, so in order to reconcile that with his belief that those guys hate what they are doing down there so much, he invents his own explanation.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    So the re-enlistment rates are high because the soldiers on the ground believe in the mission which they believe to be retaliation for the 9-11 attacks?

    Is that not a bit on the sad side?
    Actually enlistment rates are high as well. Even well after 9/11, they still remain high. Even after the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have gained media attention, they still remain high. Just many times you guys have tried to state that those who are there don't want to stay there. But the re-enlistment rates debunk that as well.
  13. TomUps's Avatar
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    #73  
    And if you told them they were going home tomorrow you wouldn't find any clamoring to stay there and finish some etheral job.
    My goodness, your on to something here DaT. So your actually saying troops would prefer to go home to their families than fight in a war? I never would have guessed that. Another DaT scoop.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by LupineSpecimen1
    But I don't know what you are going on about anyways. It seems to me that the majority still favor the war, if those numbers are correct, which disagrees with your oppinion as far as I can tell.
    Angus Reid Global Scan : Polls & Research
    Support for Iraq War Keeps Falling in U.S.
    June 2, 2006

    (Angus Reid Global Scan) – Many adults in the United States continue to question their government’s decision to launch the coalition effort, according to a poll by the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. 56 per cent of respondents think going to war with Iraq was the wrong thing to do.

    The number of Americans who express satisfaction with the decision to go to war in Iraq has fallen to 39 per cent, down two points since December.

    The coalition effort against Saddam Hussein’s regime was launched in March 2003. At least 2,471 American soldiers have died during the military operation, and more than 18,100 troops have been wounded in action.

    Last month, it was revealed that there were inconsistencies in the original report of an incident that took place in Haditah on Nov. 19, 2005. An official statement from the U.S. military claimed that "marines returned fire" when "gunmen attacked (their) convoy with small arms fire" after a roadside bomb exploded.

    However, video evidence suggests that 12 U.S. Marines could have killed 24 unarmed Iraqis. A preliminary probe into the incident found that the Marines provided a false account of what happened. Two official enquiries—one led by the U.S. Army and another by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)—have been ordered.

    Yesterday, U.S. president George W. Bush discussed the situation, saying, "There was an incident that took place in Iraq. It’s now being investigated. And this is just a reminder for troops in Iraq, or throughout our military, that there are high standards expected of them and that there are strong rules of engagement." 57 per cent of respondents would either decrease the number of U.S. troops in Iraq or remove them altogether.

    Polling Data

    Do you think going to war with Iraq was the right thing for the United States to do or the wrong thing?

    ......May 2006... Mar. 2006... Dec. 2005

    Right..... 39%... ...40%........ 41%

    Wrong... 56%...... 56%........ 54%

    Not sure.. 5%..... 4%............ 5%

    From what you have seen or heard about the situation in Iraq, what should the United States do?

    Increase the number of U.S. troops in Iraq
    11%

    Keep the same number of U.S. troops in Iraq as there are now
    25%

    Decrease the number of U.S. troops in Iraq
    28%

    Remove all its troops from Iraq
    29%

    Not sure
    6%

    Source: Quinnipiac University Polling Institute
    Methodology: Telephone interviews with 1,534 registered American voters, conducted from May 23 to May 30, 2006. Margin of error is 2.3 per cent.
    http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/inde...m/itemID/12087
  15. #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The invasion of Kuwait which was addressed by the US and crippling sanctions and the depravation of the upper most third of an entire nation?
    Yep. Do we really need to rehash this?
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by LupineSpecimen1
    Actually enlistment rates are high as well. Even well after 9/11, they still remain high. Even after the 9/11 conspiracy theorists have gained media attention, they still remain high. Just many times you guys have tried to state that those who are there don't want to stay there. But the re-enlistment rates debunk that as well.
    puleez
    "WASHINGTON - The Army is closing the books on one of the leanest recruiting years since it became an all-volunteer service three decades ago, missing its enlistment target by the largest margin since 1979 and raising questions about its plans for growth.

    See above post on re-enlistment rates.

    Yes, enlistment rates were high after 9-11 and as soon as that jingoism was hijacked into the quagmire that is the current Iraq, that stopped.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Yep. Do we really need to rehash this?

    Rehash it how.

    I don't understand what your point is by it?
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Rehash it how.

    I don't understand what your point is by it?
    The invasion of Kuwait, the nine year war over no-fly-zones, attempts by Saddams regime to thwart weapons inspections are all evidence that the aggressor here is Saddam.
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    The invasion of Kuwait, the nine year war over no-fly-zones, attempts by Saddams regime to thwart weapons inspections are all evidence that the aggressor here is Saddam.
    Sigh, no. Referencing my above cognitive dissonance comment, it will only enable you to more concretely delude yourself. And I won't enable you to do that.


  20. #80  
    Soldiers re-enlist beyond U.S. goal
    By Dave Moniz, USA TODAY
    WASHINGTON — Soldiers are re-enlisting at rates ahead of the Army's targets, even as overall recruiting is suffering after two years of the Iraq war.
    The high re-enlistment rates would make up about one-third of the Army's projected 12,000-troop shortfall in recruiting, although the re-enlistments won't address some key personnel vacancies, such as military police and bomb-disposal experts.

    Army officials attribute the strong re-enlistment rates to unprecedented cash bonuses and a renewed sense of purpose in fighting terrorism. Some of the record bonuses are tax-free if soldiers re-enlist while in Afghanistan and Iraq.

    Re-enlistment bonuses range from as little as $1,000 to as much as $150,000, depending on the type of job and length of re-enlistment. The $150,000 bonuses are offered only to senior special operations commandos who agree to stay in the military for up to six more years. The average bonus is $10,000, said Col. Debbra Head, who monitors Army retention at the Pentagon.


    From Oct. 1 through June, the Army had re-enlisted 53,120 soldiers, 6% ahead of its goal of about 50,000 for that period. At that pace, the Army would finish the year 3,850 troops ahead of its target of 64,162.

    Re-enlistment rates the past three years have been at least 6% above the service's goals for the 500,000-member active Army. There are about 105,000 Army soldiers in Iraq, including members of the National Guard and Reserve.

    "The biggest thing is that soldiers believe in what they are doing," Head said.

    The re-enlistment rate has remained strong even though the Army has accounted for 1,179 of the 1,750 U.S. troops killed in Iraq, according to USA TODAY's casualty database.

    By contrast, the Army through June was about 15% behind its goal of recruiting 80,000 soldiers by Sept. 30, the end of the fiscal year. The Army has said it faces the roughest recruiting climate since the start of the all-volunteer military in 1973.

    The bright re-enlistment picture won't fully compensate for the recruiting problems, Head said, because the Army needs new troops to fill its lower ranks and has limits on how many senior soldiers it can keep.

    Thirty-five percent of Army re-enlistments have come in combat zones, said Maj. Gerald Conway, who oversees retention policies for the Army.

    About 60% of all soldiers who have re-enlisted this year, Conway said, have received cash bonuses of some kind.

    Michael O'Hanlon, a military analyst at the Brookings Institution, said the bonuses have encouraged soldiers to re-enlist, but that many soldiers are committed to fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    Sgt. 1st Class Edwin Allbaugh, a member of the 75th Ordnance Company in Michigan, said he re-enlisted because his job makes a difference and "I work with a great group of guys." Allbaugh's unit, which disarms and destroys improvised bombs, is about to deploy to the Middle East.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...e-enlist_x.htm

    So they are bribing grunts with poor job skills and prospects with 50% or more of their yearly salary, tax free, and you are wondering why they are re-enlisting?

    Surur
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