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  1. #41  
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dstrauss
    ...If I hear another shrill voice proclaiming "I support the troops but not the mission..." I'll implode.


    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    allow me to be the first to test your hypothesis:

    I support the troops but not the mission... !!!

    (fire in the HOLE !!!!)

    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by aprasad
    Bill Clinton?
    Not nearly as pure hatred as we're seeing now.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  3. #43  
    It's all a matter of perspective. People were either his fans or hated (not just disapproved) him. The hatred was definitely not universal. He is still very popular overall, in US and worldwide. But his opposition hates him with a passion.
    --
    Aloke
    Cingular GSM
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  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    (fire in the HOLE !!!!)

    Buritto con Habanero

    Well behaved women rarely make history
  5.    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    You're talking about it as if it was some sort of victory for world or even regional stability. If so, how many Serb lives, homes and churches need to be destroyed in order for that region to be considered unstable?
    many many many fewer than the Bosnian, Croat, and Kosovo Albanian lives consumed in the Serb savagery, hoovs.

    The Serb butchery was so on the surface -- so unapologetic -- so sanctimonious in its sense of self reflective victimhood -- that I don't know how anyone can excuse or attempt to justify it.

    They systematically bombed, snipered, and murdered the hetrogeneus people of Sarejevo -- the most progressive, european, and intellectual people of the region. Tolerant moderate people of mixed faiths, ethnicities, and cultures.

    The Serbs hated them for being that.

    They made heroes of a bloody gangster mass executioner (Arkan) and his gang of rapists and thieves who called themselves the Tigers -- as they pillaged, terrorized, raped, and ethnically cleaned.

    They burnt alive grandmothers and infants -- they herded unarmed males -- including the elderly and children who'd surrendered at Srebrenica -- to their murder.

    And yes I know a little of the history of the Serbs, their connection to this holy place in Kosovo, the historical sense of persecution and survival at the hands of the moslem Ottoman Turks.

    I also know that Yugoslavia was for decades a peaceful legitimately tolerant oasis within the east european gulag. It was not inevitable for it to devolve into horror as it did.

    It did so as the direct result of that demagoguish hypocrite phoney, that butcher of the Balkans, Milosevic.

    (btw -- this is all from memory -- that's how strong my feelings were about this...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/02/2006 at 03:32 AM.
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  6.    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dstrauss
    ...If I hear another shrill voice proclaiming "I support the troops but not the mission..." I'll implode.


    I interpret this as contradicting your hypothesis dstrauss -- you were, after all, predicting an implosion...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    Oh Aprasad...

    Clinton was not universally villified by the opposition. He was villified only for getting his knob polished under the Oval Office desk and not sharing his new found polisher.

    And I think for trying to desexualize knob polishing...

    You may remember....."I did not have sex with that woman" and...."it depends on what the meaning of is, is"

    Chuck....
    Clinton was vilified, hated, and persecuted by repugs with a depth of venom only matched by the monumentousness of their hypocrisy.

    Nearly every single one of the sanctimonious parasites who harried Clinton have come to be revealed as thieves, adulterers, and liars.

    But if anyone were to ask them if they had any sense of guilt or regret, I'm certain nearly all of them would proclaim they were only doing the lord's work ...
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/01/2006 at 01:16 PM.
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  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Buritto con Habanero

    I knew there was to be fire in the hole -- I just didn't anticipate that it would be mine ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Clinton was vilified, hated, and persecuted by repugs with a depth of venom only matched by the monumentousness of their hypocrisy...
    The repubs harvested the venom and observed the hypocracy of the Devilcrats.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Nearly every single one of the sanctimonious parasites who harried Clinton have come to be revealed as thieves, adulterers, and liers..
    Just insert George W Bush in place of Clintons name and you would be accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    But if anyone were to ask them if they had any sense of guilt or regret, I'm certain nearly all of them would proclaim they were only doing the lord's work ...
    The Lords work is a lot better than the Anti Christ's work. AKA Devilcrats.

    Chuck
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    Cardio, I think you're being too forgiving of yourself for the DUI of your employees.

    The truth is that junior, rumy, and friends are responsible for the mission for which these boys were sent.

    They are responsible for the terms of engagement, the objectives, and the implements with which they could both defend themselves and assist the people they were expected to help.

    That team is also responsible for the Abu Ghraib fiasco by the terms they set for interrogation, and the people they appointed to places of responsibility.

    Authority, responsibility, and accountability come from the top -- not from the bottom.

    I was not going to use this Oliphant -- but you've made me do it!!

    So you really think that the leaders gave individuals the authority to shoot unarmed civilians? That is a lame excuse for pointing a finger at someone in charge that you disagree with. If this happened, the only ones responsible are those on the ground that did it.
    If we use your analogy, President Bush should be praised for every good deed and action that the military has accomplished while he has served as the Commander in Chief. He should be honored at parades on a daily basis, he should have a closet full of medals for valor.
    I prefer to see those that performed the action be praised or held accountable for the action, not someone else.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I interpret this as contradicting your hypothesis dstrauss -- you were, after all, predicting an implosion...
    I stand (fall?) corrected:

    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    many many many fewer than the Bosnian, Croat, and Kosovo Albanian lives consumed in the Serb savagery, hoovs.

    The Serb butchery was so on the surface -- so unapologetic -- so sanctimonious in its sense of self reflective victimhood -- that I don't know how anyone can excuse or attempt to justify it.
    So, that means atrocities committed against innocent Serbs now is justified?

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    I also know that Yugoslavia was for decades a peaceful legitimately tolerant oasis within the east european gulag. It was not inevitable for it to devolve into horror as it did.
    Wow! You may be a bit skewed in your assessment of history comrade BARYE. Calling it a "peaceful legitimately tolerant oasis" is a bit like calling Saddam's Iraq peaceful and legitimately tolerant. The "peace" was derived from the heavy-handed suppression of generations-old ethnic hatred.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    ... Wow! You may be a bit skewed in your assessment of history comrade BARYE. Calling it a "peaceful legitimately tolerant oasis" is a bit like calling Saddam's Iraq peaceful and legitimately tolerant. The "peace" was derived from the heavy-handed suppression of generations-old ethnic hatred.
    Many years ago (10+) I believe it was PBS that did a special on Kosovo that was unbelievable for a rather non-graphic segment. They were interviewing a young Serbian (mid-teen I would guess) and asking why he had just taken part in a slaughter and torching of a small village. He related that the village had done the same thing to his family in the 1400's and they were finally getting revenge 500 YEARS LATER.

    You cannot deal with that short of the heavy-handed suppression you mention. There is no hope to resolve tribal warfare like this short of extreme repression - and that may be where we are at now.
    Remember, the "P" in PDA stands for personal.
    If it works for you, it is "P"erfect.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Many years ago (10+) I believe it was PBS that did a special on Kosovo that was unbelievable for a rather non-graphic segment. They were interviewing a young Serbian (mid-teen I would guess) and asking why he had just taken part in a slaughter and torching of a small village. He related that the village had done the same thing to his family in the 1400's and they were finally getting revenge 500 YEARS LATER.

    You cannot deal with that short of the heavy-handed suppression you mention. There is no hope to resolve tribal warfare like this short of extreme repression - and that may be where we are at now.
    At the risk of sounding idealistic, I think there must be some middle ground between a the heavy-handedness of a totalitarian regime like Tito's and the U.N.'s version of PC justice (i.e. everyone gets his own turn to be mean).
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by dstrauss
    Many years ago (10+) I believe it was PBS that did a special on Kosovo that was unbelievable for a rather non-graphic segment. They were interviewing a young Serbian (mid-teen I would guess) and asking why he had just taken part in a slaughter and torching of a small village. He related that the village had done the same thing to his family in the 1400's and they were finally getting revenge 500 YEARS LATER.

    You cannot deal with that short of the heavy-handed suppression you mention. There is no hope to resolve tribal warfare like this short of extreme repression - and that may be where we are at now.
    Like I've said before:

    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    well, at least we're in agreement on non-tech stuff ...
    many of the same centuries old hatreds are present in Iraq amongst Shiites and Sunnis --
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  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    At the risk of sounding idealistic, I think there must be some middle ground between a the heavy-handedness of a totalitarian regime like Tito's and the U.N.'s version of PC justice (i.e. everyone gets his own turn to be mean).
    the middle ground is what you've in the past railed against (properly) when it was how the UN forces "protected" the people of Rwanda, or how the Dutch EU forces "protected" the people of Srebrenica.

    The middle ground that you now advocate apparently is one where they stand by making notes, and requisition body bags...
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/01/2006 at 04:50 PM.
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  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    the middle ground is what you've in the past railed against (properly) when it was how the UN forces "protected" the people of Rwanda, or how the Dutch EU forces "protected the people of Srebrenica.

    The middle ground that you now advocate apparently is one where they stand by making notes, and requisition body bags...
    No, that's the UN way. And, if you read my post you'll note that I'm not a fan of the UN way. Neither, however, am I a fan of peace through totalitarianism in whatever form.
  18.    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    No, that's the UN way. And, if you read my post you'll note that I'm not a fan of the UN way. Neither, however, am I a fan of peace through totalitarianism in whatever form.
    its easy to say what you're against here -- and you clearly are also affronted by what Clinton did, which was to stop the slaughter and bring peace to the Balkans -- what would you have done ??

    WWHD ?? (what would hoovs do )
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/02/2006 at 03:36 AM.
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  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    its easy to say what your're against here -- and you clearly are also affronted by what Clinton did, which was to stop the slaughter and bring peace to the Balkans -- what would you have done ??

    WWHD ?? (what would hoovs do )
    Ah, you assume I'm affronted by what Clinton did simply because I don't think it was the humanitarian victory that you portray. Just like in Iraq--where we can't cut and run after ousting Saddam, we have the duty to stay and try to help pick up the pieces--Kosovo wasn't a slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am venture. Unfortunately now for the Serbs they're not being treated like the Sunnis.
  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Ah, you assume I'm affronted by what Clinton did simply because I don't think it was the humanitarian victory that you portray. Just like in Iraq--where we can't cut and run after ousting Saddam, we have the duty to stay and try to help pick up the pieces--Kosovo wasn't a slam-bam-thank-you-ma'am venture...
    hoovs hoovs hoovs...

    Clinton brought to Kosovo and Bosnia stability and peace -- an end to a bloody unforgivable slaughter.

    If that's not the "humanitarian victory that you portray" -- then what was it ???

    How many Bosnian, Kosovo, Croat, and Serb lives were lost prior to Clinton's intelligent intervention ??

    How many died after our intervention ???

    junior and other conservatives denigrated Clinton for nation building -- they mocked his unwillingness to waste american soldiers lives.

    Again -- I need to ask this question every single day I am on this board -- how many american soldiers lost their lives bringing the slaughter to an end in Bosnia, how many in Kosovo ???

    ...Unfortunately now for the Serbs they're not being treated like the Sunnis.
    And the Serbs should build a shrine to Clinton to express their thanks.

    How can you say in any conceivable way that the Sunnis were treated better than the Serbs ????

    Without discussing if the Sunnis deserved the bad that has befallen them, the Sunnis are in EVERY way worse off now than before junior arrived.

    They ran Iraq, their friend was the Tyrant in Chief.

    Their brothers and husbands were the primary leaders of the Republican Guard and other elite forces. They got preferential treatment when it came to municipal civic support, contracts, graft.

    You got the similarity thing right though, hoovs -- Clinton came to stop slaughter, to make a choatic place stable.

    junior came to a stable, relatively peaceful place and transformed it into a place of slaughter and chaos.

    Yup -- they did the same thing !!
    Last edited by BARYE; 06/02/2006 at 03:39 AM.
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