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  1.    #1  
    "Iraqis can participate in three historic elections, pass the most liberal constitution in the Arab world, and form a unity government despite terrorist attacks and provocations. Yet for some critics of the president, these are minor matters. Like swallows to Capistrano, they keep returning to the same allegations--the president misled the country in order to justify the Iraq war; his administration pressured intelligence agencies to bias their judgments; Saddam Hussein turned out to be no threat since he didn't possess weapons of mass destruction; and helping democracy take root in the Middle East was a postwar rationalization. The problem with these charges is that they are false and can be shown to be so--and yet people continue to believe, and spread, them. Let me examine each in turn:..."

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110008415
  2. #2  
    I don blame bush for Iraq, I blame America itself. For all the pointless justification of why America "mistakenly" attacked Iraq, one only have to look at what the anti-war movement said before the event to show how biased the administration was in their intepretation of events, and how war-happy they were. The millions of people who potested it turns out had a much firmer grip on reality, and everything they said is happening as predicted, e.g. an american quagmire, 1000's of american soldiers dead, 100 000's iraqi's dead, no WMD, a country in the troes of civil war. So far the exit plan has not gon very well, has it?

    In short, the anti-war people trusted the right people, while Bush spread fud and only listened to those who told him what he wanted to hear.

    Surur
  3. #3  
    Well, I'm far from willing to play nice with Bush. There's a long list of countries that fit the "current" justification for nation-building. And yet, we barely pay attention to them. For folks who view things as 1911sforever, what say you to the Downing street memo?

    It's time this administration stop hiding behind others. This is so Corporate. Steop in line with Ken Lay and blame the accountant. We're talking war, for every piece of intelligence justifying it, there were analysts, reports, and memos saying the opposite. When it's war, and the enemy has not pointed a gun your way, you'd better check, double-check, and check again your justification. That did not happen.

    The problem with these charges is that they are false and can be shown to be so--and yet people continue to believe, and spread, them. Let me examine each in turn
    We'll be here all year if we try to go point by point. Obviously your thereshold for wiping out a country and rebuilding it in your own image is lower than mine.

    Right now, there are more terrorist in Iraq. And no, we didn't draw them out, we simply gave people a reason to join terrorist organizations.
  4.    #4  
    The same shrill whining that was heard throughout the Cold War...
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    The same shrill whining that was heard throughout the Cold War...
    And guess what, we didn't go to war to end it.
    BTW, your arguments are nothing short of pure genius!
  6.    #6  
    Really? You don't think the Vietnam war was connected with the policy of containment?

    Of course you don't. And you think there weren't terrorists in Iraq before we fought them there. (HINT: Google "Salman Pak")
  7. NRG
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    #7  
    Ah, 1911 is back, stoking the flames and smacking the asses of the other half of our country. Welcome back my friend! LOL
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    Really? You don't think the Vietnam war was connected with the policy of containment?

    Of course you don't. And you think there weren't terrorists in Iraq before we fought them there. (HINT: Google "Salman Pak")
    Are you saying Vietnam was right?
    Are you saying that it helped?
    Tell me the positive things that came out of it? And I'm not being facetious.


    There are terorist everywhere. Work with me on the big picture here.
    Saddam had no relationship, nor did he support Al Qaeda. If anything, he
    kept them in check. There were far more terrorists in other countries. So that argument just doesn't hold water.
  9.    #9  
    Yes, I'm saying Vietnam was right. It was a war against an idealogy that enslaved billions and killed millions.

    Yes, I'm saying it helped.

    A lot of those "terrorists everywhere" have congregated in Iraq. WHere do you think they'd be otherwise? Let me guess...you're going to argue that we provoked them. And not striking back against Islamofacism wouldn't have encouraged them? That sort of "it's a law enforcement/diplomatic problem" approach got us to 9/11.

    Saddam was paying Palis to blow up Israelis. Are you saying that isn't terrorism, or doesn't it count because of who they were blowing up?

    Speaking of "big picture", have you noticed where Iraq is located? Let me help...it's at the northern end of the Persian Gulf. Please note which countries are on the east and west border of Iraq. Syria and Iran. Now then, which two countries are the biggest exporters of terrorism?

    And I note that like most Leftists this board, you don't answer questions.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    And I note that like most Leftists this board, you don't answer questions.
    I do have answers. But I'll only share them with those who have an open mind.
    You only ask questions to try to cut down thoughts that are different from yours. My perception is that you are here only to yell louder than opposing views. And that's okay, everyone writes for their own reason. Good luck to you.


    One more rung to go!
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    "Iraqis can participate in three historic elections, pass the most liberal constitution in the Arab world, and form a unity government despite terrorist attacks and provocations. Yet for some critics of the president, these are minor matters. Like swallows to Capistrano, they keep returning to the same allegations--the president misled the country in order to justify the Iraq war; his administration pressured intelligence agencies to bias their judgments; Saddam Hussein turned out to be no threat since he didn't possess weapons of mass destruction; and helping democracy take root in the Middle East was a postwar rationalization. The problem with these charges is that they are false and can be shown to be so--and yet people continue to believe, and spread, them. Let me examine each in turn:..."

    http://www.opinionjournal.com/editor...l?id=110008415
    lol, omg, you just literally posted a letter from the white house, for real, lol

    Mr. Wehner is deputy assistant to the president and director of the White House's Office of Strategic Initiatives.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I do have answers. But I'll only share them with those who have an open mind.
    You only ask questions to try to cut down thoughts that are different from yours. My perception is that you are here only to yell louder than opposing views. And that's okay, everyone writes for their own reason. Good luck to you.
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  13.    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I do have answers. But I'll only share them with those who have an open mind.
    You only ask questions to try to cut down thoughts that are different from yours. My perception is that you are here only to yell louder than opposing views. And that's okay, everyone writes for their own reason. Good luck to you.


    One more rung to go!
    And another dodge. You really must be DA's brother.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    And another dodge. You really must be DA's brother.
    Dodge? You are attempting to justify this war by POSTING LETTERS DIRECTLY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE!!! Lol, this is so great.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Dodge? You are attempting to justify this war by POSTING LETTERS DIRECTLY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE!!! Lol, this is so great.
    If you watched "All in the family" you'd understand where he's coming from.

    Some folks suck up propaganda like it's mana. Others listen and form their own opinions. Free thinking people don't need to repeat or exercise talking points over and over.

    "See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." - Bush May 2005

    I guess the new spin is to take factual arguments made by free thinking people, and pretend that they have no meaning or value. When it was all about WMD, the sheeple kept quoting WMD points. When there was no WMD, torture and killing was sold, and the sheeple quoted the awful things that Saddam is alleged to have done. I'm no fan of Saddam, but I may be one of the only people to acknowledge that he's still in court and is not guilty of anything yet. (Yes, I know, it's a technicality) And when the awful things didn't seem bad enough for the U.S. to sacrifice thousands of lives, and billions of dollars for, Democracy and Freedom were sold. Now the sheeple are confused. They act as if there was no Downing Street memo, they combine WMD, Torture, Democracy, and Freedom togther as if that was the complete package sold to them all along.

    They've forgotten the over 40 million americans who go hungry. They've forgotten about the 60 million who have no healthcare. The sheeple are ready to pay for and support making a better life for people overseas, while they walk right past those suffering here. It's inexcusable that a 70+ year old man has to sleep in a tent inside a mold infested house because the government hasn't figured out how get electricity to a new trailer sitting 20 feet away. But I guess he's just not on anyone's agenda.
    Last edited by gaffa; 05/24/2006 at 10:17 PM.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by 1911sforever
    And another dodge. You really must be DA's brother.
    LOL....ROFLMAO

    Stop it, your killing me here.......

    Quote from John Kerry during compaign..."Wrong war, Wrong time, Wrong place"

    Any good leftist will want to fight the terrorists on US soil. Me, I say fight 'em far away from here...

    Chuck
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    Any good leftist will want to fight the terrorists on US soil. Me, I say fight 'em far away from here...Chuck
    And chuck scores yet another point in the lop-sided high brow intellectual battle with his imaginary arguing partner.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    And chuck scores yet another point in the lop-sided high brow intellectual battle with his imaginary arguing partner.
    It's like watching a tic-tac-toe tournament. I wonder who will win? lol
  19.    #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    And chuck scores yet another point in the lop-sided high brow intellectual battle with his imaginary arguing partner.
    Your attempt to pass off left wing screeching as reasoned debate is a fine indicator of how far you are from reality.

    Yep...a White House employee wrote the refereneced document. That was plain to see. As opposed to "ROVE INDICTED....REALLY, WE MEAN IT THIS TIME!" that you probably see on the sites you hit. Of course, who can beat CBS's "Fake, but accurate" approach to news.

    I ask hard questions and you guys whine. Everytime.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    And chuck scores yet another point in the lop-sided high brow intellectual battle with his imaginary arguing partner.
    Hey blaze.....

    how ya doin' today?

    Are you able to keep up with the Fidel Castro anti America directives? AKA....Spasms

    Chuck
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