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  1. NRG
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    #161  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Yes, you are mistaken.
    Blaze help me out and point me in the true direction?
  2. NRG
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    #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Oops, sorry.
    I think this is a good time for me to stop talking about ancient history...
    We will see how this goes. But from the looks of other peoples posts in this thread, we may be both right.
  3. #163  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    And what was he doing to cause this dissent and upheavel? I am curious.
    I think he was advocating for those that love one another to share their lives together -- be it in marriage or sin (like Him and that prostitute lady)...

    (mind everyone-- I write all this with the mark upon me of 666)
    (postcount)
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  4. #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas

    However, it certainly looks like this issue is affective in getting the far-right to the polls.
    Hey da........

    I think you and I are in agreement here.....please excuse me for a moment while I stick my finger down my throat to force a vomit fest.....

    This issue will get me and my fellow far-righters to the polls to vote. Yeah, vote against you....

    Here's to your loosing.....

    1 Ken Worth T600 with a little house on a chassis (AKA sleeper) $127,000.00 plus tax...not including trailer or value of load.

    1 trouble free Sprint/T650 $599.00 plus tax. (Dec '04 price)
    Which is doing real fine BTW...

    One thumbing the Treo keyboard while driving to reply to this rediculous issue...PRICELESS...

    Chuck
  5. NRG
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    #165  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    Hey da........


    One thumbing the Treo keyboard while driving to reply to this rediculous issue...PRICELESS...

    Chuck
    Scary and quite possibly the dumbest thing ever!

    Holy sh*t man just drive. I am out there on the roads too!
  6. #166  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Blaze help me out and point me in the true direction?
    Jesus was executed not long after his outburst on the temple mount, where he spoke openly about the corrupt relationship between the Romans and the Jewish leadership.
  7. #167  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    (presuming that he existed of course)
    I know of no mainstream historians who believe that Jesus never existed. We have several historical references to Jesus outside of those in the Bible.
  8. #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    ... obviously the polythiestic romans who crucified him are not the same people as the holy roman empire of 300 odd years later.

    Its rather one of the more amazing historic twists in the tail really.
    Surur
    Yes, samkim is mixing pre-constantine with post constantine Rome.

    But you're right, Rome was the source of much of today's Christian ideology, doctrine and lore. Not Jerusalem.
  9. #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    I know of no mainstream historians who believe that Jesus never existed. We have several historical references to Jesus outside of those in the Bible.
    Links?

    Surur
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Scary and quite possibly the dumbest thing ever!

    Holy sh*t man just drive. I am out there on the roads too!
    MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

    Got you all worked up
    over bullsh

    Chuck
  11. #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Links?

    Surur
    John Dominic Crossan, The Historical Jesus: The Life of a Mediterranean Jewish Peasant, HarperCollins, 1991

    and

    The Essential Jesus: Original Sayings and Earliest Images ...

    Prologue page VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossan
    If no christian had written anything about Jesus for the first hundred years after his death, we would still have two succint accouns from those not counted among his followers. One account dates from the last decade of the first centtury and comes from the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus in his Jewish Antiquities 18.63
    Quote Originally Posted by Flavius Joshephus
    About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man ... For he was one who wrought surpising feats and was a teacher of such peopole as accept the truth gladly. He wond over many Jews and many of the Greeks... When Pilate, upon hearing him accused by men of the highest standing amongst us, had condemned him to be crucified, those who had in the first place come to love him did not give up their affection for him ... And the tribe of the Christians, so called after him, has still to this day not dissappeared.
    Crossan goes on to say that Christian editors along the way had attempted to "improve" his words, but Crossan cites his neutral / critical tone without improvement.
    Quote Originally Posted by pagan historian Cornelius Tactius
    Therefore to scotch the rumour, Nero substituted as culprits, and punished with the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men, loathed for their vices, whom the crowd styled Christians. Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone procurator Pontius Pilatus, and the pernicious superstition was checked for the monment, only to break out once more, not merely in Judea, the home of the disease, but in the capital itself, where all things horrible or shameful in the world collect and find a vogue.
  12. #172  
    But back to the issue at hand, it is interesting that all of you have brought up Rome and Jesus in this context and yet none have mentioned that Jesus lived in a time when homosexuality was particularly in vogue. Perhaps more so than at any time in recorded history, and yet we have not a single word from Jesus against homosexuality.
  13. #173  
    by the way, turns out Wikipedia has more on Tactius

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Jesus
  14. #174  
    There is a very wikipedia excellent article on the historicity of Jesus, which gives a more sceptically view on the words of Josephus, and makes a whole lot less of the chrestus reference by Tacitus.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

    Surur
  15. NRG
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    #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    But back to the issue at hand, it is interesting that all of you have brought up Rome and Jesus in this context and yet none have mentioned that Jesus lived in a time when homosexuality was particularly in vogue. Perhaps more so than at any time in recorded history, and yet we have not a single word from Jesus against homosexuality.
    And here is one of my guesses. I have felt for a long time now that the reason for the 'church' and followers to be against homesexuality is because the Roman army was regular practioners of homosexuality. Which in recent years we have been shown that the romans are the ones who killed Jesus by, in their unique way, cruxification. There by homosexuality would be linked to the killing of Jesus.

    In my view Jesus was a great man, while the church corrupts, oppresses, and murders, in his name, not for him. The church as far as I am concerned is as evil as the devil himself. Please note I feel for, look up to, and support Jesus, I am just against a church which has carried out more wars, murdered more people, oppressed more women, told more lies, impeaded progress and pitted more people against each other than any other movement known to man.

    Sorry if this offends anyone. Remember it is just my opinion.
  16. #176  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    There is a very wikipedia excellent article on the historicity of Jesus, which gives a more sceptically view on the words of Josephus, and makes a whole lot less of the chrestus reference by Tacitus.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

    Surur
    Ok, i see it now. At first glance, it certainly does not seem very mainstream, to put it kindly.

    The segment on "Parallels with Mediterranian mystery religions" is fascinating, and this is what I meant when I was talking about pre-constantine and post-constantine. It seems that much of the lore or mythos surrounding Jesus bears too close a resemblance to other Mediterranian religions of the time to be a coincidence.

    The naked boy god who rose out of the stone cave on Easter for example.

    From what I have read and seen, it seems more plausible that when the romans adopted christianity around the time of constantine, they incorporated their own lore.

    And the teachings of Jesus, were "a good fit". For example, the Roman tradition of literally eating and drinking in a catacomb next to rotting corpses was close enough to Jesus' eating and drinking ceremony to make the disgusting practice unneccisarry for the romans.
  17. #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    And here is one of my guesses. I have felt for a long time now that the reason for the 'church' and followers to be against homesexuality is because the Roman army was regular practioners of homosexuality. Which in recent years we have been shown that the romans are the ones who killed Jesus by, in their unique way, cruxification. There by homosexuality would be linked to the killing of Jesus.
    Homophobism is deeply ingrained in Judaism. Just look at Leviticus

    Leviticus 18:22-No man is to have sexual relations with another man, God hates that.
    Leviticus 20:13-If a man has sexual relations with another man, they have done a disgusting thing, and both shall be put to death. They are responsible for their own death.
    However Christians who take lessons from this should be reminded the the Old Testament also advocated some really terrible practices. It would be hypocritical to pick and chose which laws one chose to enforce. The western world has moved on from tribal law.

    Surur
  18. #178  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    And here is one of my guesses. I have felt for a long time now that the reason for the 'church' and followers to be against homesexuality is because the Roman army was regular practioners of homosexuality. Which in recent years we have been shown that the romans are the ones who killed Jesus by, in their unique way, cruxification. There by homosexuality would be linked to the killing of Jesus...
    Ok, but remember, it was the Roman's adoption of Christianity under Constantine that brought the practice to the western world, and there was no hatred of homosexuality at that time.

    By most accounts, it was the European Victorian era that brought the hatred of homosexuality to western civilization.
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Homophobism is deeply ingrained in Judaism. Just look at Leviticus



    However Christians who take lessons from this should be reminded the the Old Testament also advocated some really terrible practices. It would be hypocritical to pick and chose which laws one chose to enforce. The western world has moved on from tribal law.

    Surur
    But remember Sursur, it was Jesus' open defiance of Jewish tradition that got him killed, not his adherance to it.

    Literally MOST of what we know Jesus had to say was against Jewish tradition not for.

    Things such as ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus
    In all the history of the world, no one was as good as John the Baptist. From now on, every one of you are better than John the Baptist.
    let the dead rebury the dead
    etc ...

    he frequently shocked onlookers by taking the side those who did not pay their debts, the weak, the poor, even prostitutes, and never a word against homosexuals, despite being surrounded by them
  20. #180  
    Agreed, but I feel modern Christians take support for their homophobic views from the old testament, vs the words of Christ itself. They would often quote the very same passages, ignoring Christ's repudiation of Judaic law.

    Surur
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