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  1.    #161  
    of course

    if you aint with us, you're against us, yeeehaww
  2. #162  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    of course

    if you aint with us, you're against us, yeeehaww
    Exactly. lol
  3. #163  
    Quickly looking through some of the posts....someone said we have been attacked only once? What about our embassies in Africa? What about the WTC back in the 90s?

    What about Clinton and Echlon? What about Smith vs Maryland?

    What about yesterday's poll that showed the majority of Americans had no problem with this issue - terrorism being the main concern?

    If this country were to sustain a terrorist attack and the president had not instituted any of the policies/actions he has done, then you bet the democrats would be yelling at the top of their collective lungs with Yeller at the forefront screaming HE SHOULD HAVE...

    The only ones making a real issue out of this is the real left of this country. Those who consider themselves to be just a bit left of the center do not see this as an issue.

    Frankly, the real issue here is the democratic party is still pissed that their yeller lost the election.

    Gone from this discussion.
    Ben
  4. NRG
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    #164  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Quickly looking through some of the posts....someone said we have been attacked only once? What about our embassies in Africa? What about the WTC back in the 90s?
    I think if you go back and reread the post, I think he/she said here.

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    What about Clinton and Echlon? What about Smith vs Maryland?
    What about it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    What about yesterday's poll that showed the majority of Americans had no problem with this issue - terrorism being the main concern?
    A poll that came out 24 hours after this story? Like that is enough time to explain both sides, debate it? Also could you please provide a link to the poll

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    If this country were to sustain a terrorist attack and the president had not instituted any of the policies/actions he has done, then you bet the democrats would be yelling at the top of their collective lungs with Yeller at the forefront screaming HE SHOULD HAVE...
    You mean an Aug 6th PDB, listening to your terrorism czar, etc.?

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    The only ones making a real issue out of this is the real left of this country. Those who consider themselves to be just a bit left of the center do not see this as an issue.
    Alright! You my friend first need to step away from the hate radio and turn off Fox. Second, GO READ!!!!!!!!!!!

    Notice the R next to his name. There are other (R)s too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
    "He's going to have to explain what his role was. To start with, did he put that program forward, whose idea was it, why was it started?" Hagel said. "He knows that he's not going to be confirmed without answering those questions."

    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Gone from this discussion.
    Ben
    Please read some more about this while you are gone. And not from places like FreeRepublic, Hannity, Rush, Bill, Cavuto, Fox, etc.
  5.    #165  
    wheww
  6. NRG
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    #166  
    NSA Whistleblower To Expose More Unlawful Activity: ‘People…Are Going To Be Shocked’

    CongressDaily reports that former NSA staffer Russell Tice will testify to the Senate Armed Services Committee next week that not only do employees at the agency believe the activities they are being asked to perform are unlawful, but that what has been disclosed so far is only the tip of the iceberg. Tice will tell Congress that former NSA head Gen. Michael Hayden, Bush’s nominee to be the next CIA director, oversaw more illegal activity that has yet to be disclosed:

    A former intelligence officer for the National Security Agency said Thursday he plans to tell Senate staffers next week that unlawful activity occurred at the agency under the supervision of Gen. Michael Hayden beyond what has been publicly reported, while hinting that it might have involved the illegal use of space-based satellites and systems to spy on U.S. citizens. …

    said he plans to tell the committee staffers the NSA conducted illegal and unconstitutional surveillance of U.S. citizens while he was there with the knowledge of Hayden. … “I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them. It’s pretty hard to believe,” Tice said. “I hope that they’ll clean up the abuses and have some oversight into these programs, which doesn’t exist right now.” …
  7. #167  
    Poll: Most Americans Support NSA's Efforts
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...200375_pf.html

    A majority of Americans initially support a controversial National Security Agency program to collect information on telephone calls made in the United States in an effort to identify and investigate potential terrorist threats, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll.

    The new survey found that 63 percent of Americans said they found the NSA program to be an acceptable way to investigate terrorism, including 44 percent who strongly endorsed the effort. Another 35 percent said the program was unacceptable, which included 24 percent who strongly objected to it.

    A slightly larger majority--66 percent--said they would not be bothered if NSA collected records of personal calls they had made, the poll found.

    Underlying those views is the belief that the need to investigate terrorism outweighs privacy concerns. According to the poll, 65 percent of those interviewed said it was more important to investigate potential terrorist threats "even if it intrudes on privacy." Three in 10--31 percent--said it was more important for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats.

    Half--51 percent--approved of the way President Bush was handling privacy matters.

    The survey results reflect initial public reaction to the NSA program. Those views that could change or deepen as more details about the effort become known over the next few days.

    ...
  8.    #168  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    NSA Whistleblower To Expose More Unlawful Activity: ‘People…Are Going To Be Shocked’

    CongressDaily reports that former NSA staffer Russell Tice will testify to the Senate Armed Services Committee next week that not only do employees at the agency believe the activities they are being asked to perform are unlawful, but that what has been disclosed so far is only the tip of the iceberg. Tice will tell Congress that former NSA head Gen. Michael Hayden, Bush’s nominee to be the next CIA director, oversaw more illegal activity that has yet to be disclosed:

    A former intelligence officer for the National Security Agency said Thursday he plans to tell Senate staffers next week that unlawful activity occurred at the agency under the supervision of Gen. Michael Hayden beyond what has been publicly reported, while hinting that it might have involved the illegal use of space-based satellites and systems to spy on U.S. citizens. …

    said he plans to tell the committee staffers the NSA conducted illegal and unconstitutional surveillance of U.S. citizens while he was there with the knowledge of Hayden. … “I think the people I talk to next week are going to be shocked when I tell them what I have to tell them. It’s pretty hard to believe,” Tice said. “I hope that they’ll clean up the abuses and have some oversight into these programs, which doesn’t exist right now.” …
    I bet they would like to ask him about this during his hearing, but I am sure he will say that it's top secret.
  9. NRG
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    #169  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Poll: Most Americans Support NSA's Efforts
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...200375_pf.html

    A majority of Americans initially support a controversial National Security Agency program to collect information on telephone calls made in the United States in an effort to identify and investigate potential terrorist threats, according to a Washington Post-ABC News poll.

    The new survey found that 63 percent of Americans said they found the NSA program to be an acceptable way to investigate terrorism, including 44 percent who strongly endorsed the effort. Another 35 percent said the program was unacceptable, which included 24 percent who strongly objected to it.

    A slightly larger majority--66 percent--said they would not be bothered if NSA collected records of personal calls they had made, the poll found.

    Underlying those views is the belief that the need to investigate terrorism outweighs privacy concerns. According to the poll, 65 percent of those interviewed said it was more important to investigate potential terrorist threats "even if it intrudes on privacy." Three in 10--31 percent--said it was more important for the federal government not to intrude on personal privacy, even if that limits its ability to investigate possible terrorist threats.

    Half--51 percent--approved of the way President Bush was handling privacy matters.

    The survey results reflect initial public reaction to the NSA program. Those views that could change or deepen as more details about the effort become known over the next few days.

    ...
    I am skeptical of this poll. Here is why, you questions make no mention of warrants, or the FISA court/law, the fact they refused to goto FISa, and there is no oversight. Like the bottom of your snip says, I think we will get a better picture of public opinion as this gets talked more about.
  10. #170  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    I am skeptical of this poll. Here is why, you questions make no mention of warrants, or the FISA court/law, the fact they refused to goto FISa, and there is no oversight. Like the bottom of your snip says, I think we will get a better picture of public opinion as this gets talked more about.
    Along with two-thirds of the country, I don't care if the NSA collects personal call records. Why would I care about court oversight or warrants?

    I guess you're hoping that people will be trained by the media to be outraged over time. I'm saving my outrage for real problems - like weakening our intelligence gathering capability.


    The 9/11 Commission documented how prior restrictions on domestic intelligence stopped law enforcement from detecting or preventing 9/11.

    In "See No Evil" (a BORING book), former CIA officer Bob Baer described how the low priority given to spying in the 90s ultimately hurt the US significantly in its effort to combat terrorists. They still haven't recovered from the setback.

    Weakening our intelligence capabilities can have serious negative consequences. Unfortunately, the vocal class pays no regard to those consequences before launching attacks on our government.
  11. NRG
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    #171  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Along with two-thirds of the country, I don't care if the NSA collects personal call records. Why would I care about court oversight or warrants?
    Let's give it 2 weeks before we call it. How bout that?

    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    I guess you're hoping that people will be trained by the media to be outraged over time. I'm saving my outrage for real problems - like weakening our intelligence gathering capability.
    Let's give it 2 weeks, hell I might get behind it myself, that is if there is oversight.

    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    The 9/11 Commission documented how prior restrictions on domestic intelligence stopped law enforcement from detecting or preventing 9/11.
    This program was in place before 9/11, guess it helped alot.

    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    In "See No Evil" (a BORING book), former CIA officer Bob Baer described how the low priority given to spying in the 90s ultimately hurt the US significantly in its effort to combat terrorists. They still haven't recovered from the setback.
    There is the flip-side to that as well, "Against All Enemies" by Richard Clarke.

    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Weakening our intelligence capabilities can have serious negative consequences. Unfortunately, the vocal class pays no regard to those consequences before launching attacks on our government.
    Is government critiscism off limits? Ignoring our intelligence services carries major consquences. Look I am not saying "DON'T DO IT", all I am saying is "There has to be oversight via Judical and Congressional branches".

    "If you got nothing to hide, you shouldn't mind ......(oversight)". - Anon
    Last edited by NRG; 05/13/2006 at 01:33 AM.
  12. #172  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    This program was in place before 9/11, guess it helped alot.
    That's one of the dumber things you've ever said. You're concluding that it has no benefit because 9/11 happened.

    You also conveniently ignored my point by changing the subject.

    There is the flip-side to that as well, "Against All Enemies" by Richard Clarke.
    And Clarke says what exactly about restrictions on intelligence capabilities? Does he disagree with my specific points or are you changing the subject again?

    Is government critiscism off limits?
    Criticism can be good. But this knee-jerk variety may ultimately weaken our country.
  13.    #173  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrg
    I think we will get a better picture of public opinion as this gets talked more about.
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Along with two-thirds of the country, I don't care if the NSA collects personal call records. Why would I care about court oversight or warrants? I guess you're hoping that people will be trained by the media to be outraged over time.
    Newsweek Poll: Americans Wary of NSA Spying
    Bush’s approval ratings hit new lows as controversy rages
    .


    Newsweek Web Exclusive
    By David Jefferson
    Updated: 11:59 a.m. ET May 13, 2006

    May 13, 2006 - Has the Bush administration gone too far in expanding the powers of the President to fight terrorism? Yes, say a majority of Americans, following this week’s revelation that the National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone records of U.S. citizens since the September 11 terrorist attacks. According to the latest NEWSWEEK poll, 53 percent of Americans think the NSA’s surveillance program “goes too far in invading people’s privacy,” while 41 percent see it as a necessary tool to combat terrorism.

    President Bush tried to reassure the public this week that its privacy is “fiercely protected,” and that “we’re not mining or trolling through the personal lives of innocent Americans.” Nonetheless, Americans think the White House has overstepped its bounds: 57 percent said that in light of the NSA data-mining news and other executive actions, the Bush-Cheney Administration has “gone too far in expanding presidential power.” That compares to 38 percent who think the Administration’s actions are appropriate.

    There’s more bad news for the White House in the NEWSWEEK poll: President Bush’s approval rating has dropped to the lowest in his presidency. At 35 percent, his rating is one point below the 36 percent he received in Newsweek’s polls in March and November, 2005.


  14. #174  
    And so the media activism begins...
  15.    #175  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    And so the media activism begins...
    lol, of course, liberal media, blah, blah, fair and balanced, blah, blah
  16. #176  
    You're as insightful as you've ever been.
  17.    #177  
    Quote Originally Posted by nrg
    I think we will get a better picture of public opinion as this gets talked more about.
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Along with two-thirds of the country, I don't care if the NSA collects personal call records. Why would I care about court oversight or warrants? I guess you're hoping that people will be trained by the media to be outraged over time.
    Newsweek Poll: Americans Wary of NSA Spying
    Bush’s approval ratings hit new lows as controversy rages
    .


    Newsweek Web Exclusive
    By David Jefferson
    Updated: 11:59 a.m. ET May 13, 2006

    May 13, 2006 - Has the Bush administration gone too far in expanding the powers of the President to fight terrorism? Yes, say a majority of Americans, following this week’s revelation that the National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone records of U.S. citizens since the September 11 terrorist attacks. According to the latest NEWSWEEK poll, 53 percent of Americans think the NSA’s surveillance program “goes too far in invading people’s privacy,” while 41 percent see it as a necessary tool to combat terrorism.

    President Bush tried to reassure the public this week that its privacy is “fiercely protected,” and that “we’re not mining or trolling through the personal lives of innocent Americans.” Nonetheless, Americans think the White House has overstepped its bounds: 57 percent said that in light of the NSA data-mining news and other executive actions, the Bush-Cheney Administration has “gone too far in expanding presidential power.” That compares to 38 percent who think the Administration’s actions are appropriate.

    There’s more bad news for the White House in the NEWSWEEK poll: President Bush’s approval rating has dropped to the lowest in his presidency. At 35 percent, his rating is one point below the 36 percent he received in Newsweek’s polls in March and November, 2005.


  18. #178  
    And so the media activism begins...
  19. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    And so the media activism begins...
    It's called journalism.
  20. #180  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    It's called journalism.
    When you choose sides, it's not journalism; it's politics.

    Take a look at the photo and tell me if the editor is for or against Bush.
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