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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Fortunately he absolutely has an obligation to perform whatever task the government calls on him to do. They take an oath! If he didn't want to live by the oath perhaps he should have looked at other means to pay for school.
    Why is that fortunate?
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Another talking point. How many times have I heard that.
    This implies you have heard it a lot wich would also imply its a common obversation.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Don't be stupid! I wasn't talking about the goal, I was talking about the plans to get there.
    No why would you call me stupid? You didn't mention a goal or plans.
    You asked, what are Dems for. I answered you exactly. And you call me stupid? I was hoping for a more constructive response.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Why is that fortunate?
    Its a trade of goods for services. If I fund the goods (school, bonus to buy a bullet bike with, etc..) then I expect the services.
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    #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    However, to clarify, Echelon did utilize the FISA courts.
    However, there were concerns that the system in and of itself was designed so that it could be abused and used against US citizens in strictly domestic conversations.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  6. cardio's Avatar
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    #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Another talking point. How many times have I heard that.
    The solution is better intelligence through better international alliances.
    The solution was to use FISA. I've never heard what was wrong with that?
    I could go on and on. But you know these things.

    If intelligence is collected responsibly, appropriately, and legally, then by all means use it.
    Has anyone collected intelligence in an illegal manner? Not asking if you think it was right wrong or indifferent, was it collected in an illegal manner?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  7. cardio's Avatar
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    #127  
    "Unfortunately, a kid who joined the military just to pay for college, does
    not deserve to die in a country that took no action against us."

    This is up near the top of the really dumb statements list.

    If you join any of the branches of the Armed Forces (active, guard or reserve) you should expect that you may be asked to take up Arms and defend the nation and/or the national objectives. The Commander in Chief along with the Congress and Senate determine what those objectives are. I dealt with several of those who joined for college and would whine when their duty hours or location changed because it interfered with school.

    If you just join to pay for college I here McDonalds is hiring and they do not expect you to do hand to hand combat with a fry cook at Burger King.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The position the Dems are taking is, yes do the intelligence work but use the FISA courts to protect citizen's rights. There needs to be oversight.
    If it is, that's not the message they're giving.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    These are issues that warrant serious discussion but the pols distract the public by bringing up irrelevant social issues such as gay marriage, abortion rights and so on. Both parties are equally guilty of this - the only difference being that whichever party is in power tries to ram its social agenda down the collective american throats whether they like it or not (or whether they care or not).
    I wouldn't go the Communist route. Socialism has a stigma about it. But there's no doubt that tribal societies tend to be the most stable with the happiest people when left alone. Their 'leaver' mentality creates a good balance in the world. Our 'taker' approach only feeds the thought that there is 'one right way to live,' and that we know what it is. But that's another topic.

    With the social issues you mentioned, it seems like people have a warped view of freedom. To many, freedom seems to mean the ability to limit others to doing what is approved. Even if it does not effect them. I'm not sure how to guys getting married effect people who don't even know them? They are afraid of being influenced I guess? I think we don't have a good idea of the world's perspective on the U.S. During WWII, films were circulated overseas showing the lynchings of blacks in the south, naitive americans starving on reservations, etc. How do you sell democracy when your government looks the other way? No government is perfect. We've a long way to go, but right now we live in a society where people die everyday because they don't have money for health care. We're the third richest country on the planet. And yet we're the only developed country that does not provide health care? People worry about the care being worse if we change, but we rate lower in quality than many countries with national health care. The bottom line is, it's tough to tell others that you've got the model system, when you don't take care of your own. Most on this board don't care, because they have money. They don't know what it's like to have to burn your own furniture for heat. Or to eat only 3-days a week because that's all you can manage.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    "Unfortunately, a kid who joined the military just to pay for college, does
    not deserve to die in a country that took no action against us."

    This is up near the top of the really dumb statements list.

    If you join any of the branches of the Armed Forces (active, guard or reserve) you should expect that you may be asked to take up Arms and defend the nation and/or the national objectives. The Commander in Chief along with the Congress and Senate determine what those objectives are. I dealt with several of those who joined for college and would whine when their duty hours or location changed because it interfered with school.

    If you just join to pay for college I here McDonalds is hiring and they do not expect you to do hand to hand combat with a fry cook at Burger King.
    You can call it dumb, but it's real. I agree with you, if you sign, you live with the consequences. You must live up to your promise. I think our government let us down on the decision process when deciding to go in. Lives are on the line. I'm not going to get into a lot of discussion regarding military, but honestly I don't know much about it. I just would hope that if a soldier falls, it would be to defend my freedom and my family. Otherwise, following the logic that got us into this war, as soon as we leave Iraq, we need to go right into a long list of other countries who threaten us, and treat their citizens just as bad.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    How bout comming up with a solution. It's seems the government is expected to have intelligence and act accordingly but have no business actually collecting the intelligence they are expected to have.
    Just use the FISA courts. The solution which already existed.
  12. #132  
    Nice FAQ with links about the whole NSA//phone record thing here:

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6...tml?tag=st.num

    Presents opinions from both sides through links in the article. Am really surprised by how many people polled (last page of article) felt it was OK. It's not a problem, I guess, until someone comes knocking on your door wondering about all those calls you made.

    Or maybe as long as we have our cars and toys to play with, personal liberties aren't as important?
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  13.    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    Nice FAQ with links about the whole NSA//phone record thing here:

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6...tml?tag=st.num

    Presents opinions from both sides through links in the article. Am really surprised by how many people polled (last page of article) felt it was OK. It's not a problem, I guess, until someone comes knocking on your door wondering about all those calls you made.

    Or maybe as long as we have our cars and toys to play with, personal liberties aren't as important?
    When the question is phrased like ...

    "Are you ok with the NSA spying on the terrorists?"

    Americans think it's great.

    When the question is phrased like...

    "Are you ok with the NSA spying on you and your family?"

    They're not so keen on it.
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    #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    Nice FAQ with links about the whole NSA//phone record thing here:

    http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-6...tml?tag=st.num

    Presents opinions from both sides through links in the article. Am really surprised by how many people polled (last page of article) felt it was OK. It's not a problem, I guess, until someone comes knocking on your door wondering about all those calls you made.

    Or maybe as long as we have our cars and toys to play with, personal liberties aren't as important?
    Interesting, but it is a poll and everyone knows how I feel about polls. It will be fun to watch the spin on how the poll watchers here at TC equate the response to the other polls that they so readily quote and stand by, you know the ones where Bush approval rating ....

    I only saw one number below 50% on this poll in reference to the president.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  15. #135  
    Blaze makes an excellent point. Gotta know how the question was asked. "How do you feel about breathing oxygen?" will get a different response than "How do you feel about breathing highly combustible gas?

    Cardio reminded me of an old Saturday Night Live skit (probably an election night takeoff) where they polled the effectiveness of polls that polled the effectiveness of polls polling polls, ad infinitum. (It was funnier to watch.)
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  16. #136  
    Posted this elsewhere but here goes....how long before this ?

    http://www.aclu.org/pizza/
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by JackNaylorPE
    Posted this elsewhere but here goes....how long before this ?

    http://www.aclu.org/pizza/
    Didn't see a tab for credit rating, though. That's probably the biggest consideration a pizza vendor would have! Higher credit rating = more likely to pay for the pizza when it's delivered.

    Seriously, though, I think the cat got out of the bag quite a while ago with the advent of online shopping and people's increased comfort level with computers and using data.
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  18. NRG
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    #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    i could care less about the whole thing. If I say or do something wrong, then I pay the price. Pure and simple. I take responsiblity for my actions. Paint me conservative. Ben
    Good, then can I come over to your house and rifle through your files?
  19. NRG
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    #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    This is GREAT news. There has been no attck in almost 5 years. At the one thing the Government is really supposed to do, this admnistraion is on target.
    Dutch, hate to do it but, what you are saying is a non-argument. Just because there have been no attacks, means absolutley nothing, zero.
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