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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I the the WMD case proves that the government is very good at applying the "ladder of inference."
    Being a Dem is so convenient...
  2. #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    With this quote you imply that the Republican party is controlling what the NSA does, specifically Bush. The NSA runs the NSA, and within the legal boundaries. Go back and drink you koolaid. Go back to www.conspiraciesrus.com
    Puleez. You're suggesting this administration and or it's appointees are not driving this NSA strategy of not going through the FISA courts? Of data mining?

    Now who's drinking koolaid?
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    With this quote you imply that the Republican party is controlling what the NSA does, specifically Bush. The NSA runs the NSA, and within the legal boundaries. Go back and drink you koolaid. Go back to www.conspiraciesrus.com
    The head of the NSA is approved by the President. Let's not pretend that the actions of the NSA don't line up with strategies and goals of the the White House. Now I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but the bottom line is that the president has to be okay with what they do. Ironically, the quote below is straight from the NSA website...

    "Since NSA is authorized by law to collect only foreign intelligence information, we would not ordinarily expect to find responsive information about U.S. individuals in other than the Privacy Act-type files.

    ...Typical Privacy Act records at this Agency would include the personnel, security, training, and medical records of Agency employees, applicants, and affiliates."

    I am not an employee, applicant, or affiliate. So they should not have any info on me.
  4. #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Being a Dem is so convenient...
    Yea, for being able to sleep at night.

  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Yea, for being able to sleep at night.

    So true!

    If you're never FOR anything, its impossilble to be held accountable for the results.

    If you're always AGAINST everything, you've got high perch from wich to yell I told you so.

  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    So true!

    If you're never FOR anything, its impossilble to be held accountable for the results.

    If you're always AGAINST everything, you've got high perch from wich to yell I told you so.

    You've got to stop just making up rhetoric to reply with.
    Time to school you. Democrats are for....

    - Strength at home
    - Strength Overseas
    - Economic Growth
    - Election Reform
    - Protecting our environment
    - Better Education
    - Secure Retirement
    - Affordable Health Care
    - Honest Governement
    - Civil Rights & Justice
  7. #107  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    So true!

    If you're never FOR anything, its impossilble to be held accountable for the results.

    If you're always AGAINST everything, you've got high perch from wich to yell I told you so.

    Republican talking points bolded for reading ease.


    To summarize, being for FISA court monitoring translates through the Cons lexicon as being [b]against[b] everything.
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    #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    You've got to stop just making up rhetoric to reply with.
    Time to school you. Democrats are for....

    - Strength at home
    - Strength Overseas
    - Economic Growth
    - Election Reform
    - Protecting our environment
    - Better Education
    - Secure Retirement
    - Affordable Health Care
    - Honest Governement
    - Civil Rights & Justice
    That may be in line with the party platform, now the difficult task will be to find a candidate that can put those thoughts into action, or at least the words that make it sound like they believe these statements
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    OK, just curious. Thanks for the clarification
    However, to clarify, Echelon did utilize the FISA courts.
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    That may be in line with the party platform, now the difficult task will be to find a candidate that can put those thoughts into action, or at least the words that make it sound like they believe these statements
    In most cases, everyone agrees on the "whats." Regardless of party lines.
    The "hows." Now therein lies the rub!!!

    I'm just tired of people voting out of fear. Stop voting to keep someone out of office, vote to put someone in that you believe in. It's like declaring someone guilty because they "might" do something wrong. Has anyone seen Minority Report? :-)
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    In most cases, everyone agrees on the "whats." Regardless of party lines.
    The "hows." Now therein lies the rub!!!

    I'm just tired of people voting out of fear. Stop voting to keep someone out of office, vote to put someone in that you believe in. It's like declaring someone guilty because they "might" do something wrong. Has anyone seen Minority Report? :-)
    well said - but the problem is who do you believe in? None of the pols (on either side of the political aisle) who are even remotely believable. So simple solution - throw the bums out - whichever party is in power - that'll keep 'em on their toes (worked great when the Repugnicans swept the DamnCats out of Congress in '94 and perhaps time for another change now). Another thing that works great is political gridlock - always have the white house and congress on the opposite sides of the aisle - that's when real business gets down while the pols wrangle.

    Of course if we had a truly viable third party .....*sigh* one can only dream....
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  12. #112  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    You've got to stop just making up rhetoric to reply with.
    Time to school you. Democrats are for....

    - Strength at home
    - Strength Overseas
    - Economic Growth
    - Election Reform
    - Protecting our environment
    - Better Education
    - Secure Retirement
    - Affordable Health Care
    - Honest Governement
    - Civil Rights & Justice
    Don't be stupid! I wasn't talking about the goal, I was talking about the plans to get there.
  13. #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Republican talking points bolded for reading ease.


    To summarize, being for FISA court monitoring translates through the Cons lexicon as being [b]against[b] everything.
    How bout comming up with a solution. It's seems the government is expected to have intelligence and act accordingly but have no business actually collecting the intelligence they are expected to have.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    well said - but the problem is who do you believe in? None of the pols (on either side of the political aisle) who are even remotely believable. So simple solution - throw the bums out - whichever party is in power - that'll keep 'em on their toes (worked great when the Repugnicans swept the DamnCats out of Congress in '94 and perhaps time for another change now). Another thing that works great is political gridlock - always have the white house and congress on the opposite sides of the aisle - that's when real business gets down while the pols wrangle.

    Of course if we had a truly viable third party .....*sigh* one can only dream....
    I think the only tool that will help with decisions, is public funding for campaign. It puts things close to equal footing.

    Other than that, it's a problem with people, not government. We buy into the talking points and regurgitate them like they hold the key to life. People are cattle. No one looks up information for themselves any longer. Very few of us have an open mind. Many just stay on party lines. Everyone only thinks of themselves when they vote. They don't think about society. Why is the country in record debt (owned by China) and people are still getting tax cuts? What kind of f'd up logic is that. Everytime the fed gov cuts your taxes, they cut funding state initiatives. So the state raises taxes. Wake up. We are all paying more taxes than ever. Do the math!

    Bottom line, we're gullable. We are getting exactly what we deserve.
    Unfortunately, a kid who joined the military just to pay for college, does
    not deserve to die in a country that took no action against us.
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Unfortunately, a kid who joined the military just to pay for college, does
    not deserve to die in a country that took no action against us.
    Fortunately he absolutely has an obligation to perform whatever task the government calls on him to do. They take an oath! If he didn't want to live by the oath perhaps he should have looked at other means to pay for school.
  16.    #116  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    Fortunately he absolutely has an obligation to perform whatever task the government calls on him to do. They take an oath! If he didn't want to live by the oath perhaps he should have looked at other means to pay for school.
    Although many of them such as the George W, signed up for the national guard as a way of Avoiding being sent to war.
  17. #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Although many of them such as the George W, signed up for the national guard as a way of Avoiding being sent to war.
    My point is that it really doesn't matter why they joined- They joined!!
  18. #118  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    I think the only tool that will help with decisions, is public funding for campaign. It puts things close to equal footing.
    maybe - but I would worry about other funding going under the table (it would surely happen) where it isn't as visible as it is today - that could be worse problem?

    Other than that, it's a problem with people, not government. We buy into the talking points and regurgitate them like they hold the key to life. People are cattle. No one looks up information for themselves any longer. Very few of us have an open mind. Many just stay on party lines. Everyone only thinks of themselves when they vote. They don't think about society.
    careful! you're starting to sound like those good ol' communists now! LOL! They've learned the hard way that you cannot force people to think about the "common good" - best you can try and do is govern on the principle of intelligent self-preservation (key word being intelligent - which i agree is extremely rare)

    You're right about the rest of the points - these are issues that warrant serious discussion but the pols distract the public by bringing up irrelevant social issues such as gay marriage, abortion rights and so on. Both parties are equally guilty of this - the only difference being that whichever party is in power tries to ram its social agenda down the collective american throats whether they like it or not (or whether they care or not).
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  19. #119  
    Don't missunderstand me I don't think the little whinners should be at war either. They'll likely be the ones making mistakes that cause soldiers who joined for the right reasons to die.

    Perhaps they should be assigned latrine duty
  20. #120  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    How bout comming up with a solution.
    Another talking point. How many times have I heard that.
    The solution is better intelligence through better international alliances.
    The solution was to use FISA. I've never heard what was wrong with that?
    I could go on and on. But you know these things.

    If intelligence is collected responsibly, appropriately, and legally, then by all means use it.
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