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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Which parts do I have a clouded view of?
    I didn't mean to sound argumentative, perhaps clouded was a poor choice of words.

    I was just curious why this particular issue is such an absolute for you with no room for interpertation.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    I didn't mean to sound argumentative, perhaps clouded was a poor choice of words.

    I was just curious why this particular issue is such an absolute for you with no room for interpertation.
    Because I am a firm believer in the rights of the citizen over the power of the gov't. Gov't exists to serve the people.
  3. #83  
    Fortunately for the NSA they are doing nothing illegal. And on top of that the all important polls should suffice the left. People don't care about this.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Luckily we have a constitution which stands up to the majority when needed.
  4. #84  
    I find it appalling that the media keeps spinning this as, "Your conversations aren't being monitored. They're just collecting the phone numbers."

    I don't want you monitoring my calls, I don't want you noting who I talk to. And it's ridiculous to assure the public that everything is legal when there is no independent monitor. What else is the public gullable enough to swallow? Am I the only person who read the Downing Street memo?

    I see Quest isn't under the gun (that I know of). Could that be because it would force a court decision and a compelling case with facts would have to be presented?
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Fortunately for the NSA they are doing nothing illegal. And on top of that the all important polls should suffice the left. People don't care about this.
    Polls aka Public Opinion doesn't make something right.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    Fortunately for the NSA they are doing nothing illegal. And on top of that the all important polls should suffice the left. People don't care about this.
    So Qwest refused the request by the the NSA because they were feeling grumpy that particular day?

    Every week we learn something new this admin is doing that keeps moving further and further away from our protected rights. And it has nothing to do with what party is doing it. Howard Dean could be doing this and it would be just as wrong.
  7. #87  
    What I think is really foul about this whole thing is the Democratic leadership response. Instead of looking out for the welfare of the American public--of which they claim to be stalwarts--they give at minimum tacit approval for the program. Then when it goes public, they sit back and act outraged over the Bush administration. Well, to me this makes Nancy Pelosi look like a lying sack, hypocrit and opportunist. Not a politician.

    EDIT: I take that last part back. It doesn't make her look like a statesman... although very much like a politician.

    Pelosi has spoken publicly about the need for congressional oversight on this program. While she has been briefed several times by the administration, Pelosi has said that does not mean she approved of the surveillance.
    http://www.showmenews.com/2006/Jan/20060129News008.asp
  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    Polls aka Public Opinion doesn't make something right.
    With the dems that seems to depend on the issue
  9. #89  
    I'll make sure I depend on a phone company for any future legal decisions needed.

    btw, the NSA exists whether there is a Repub or Dem in the White House.

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    So Qwest refused the request by the the NSA because they were feeling grumpy that particular day?

    Every week we learn something new this admin is doing that keeps moving further and further away from our protected rights. And it has nothing to do with what party is doing it. Howard Dean could be doing this and it would be just as wrong.
  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    What I think is really foul about this whole thing is the Democratic leadership response. Instead of looking out for the welfare of the American public--of which they claim to be stalwarts--they give at minimum tacit approval for the program. Then when it goes public, they sit back and act outraged over the Bush administration. Well, to me this makes Nancy Pelosi look like a lying sack, hypocrit and opportunist. Not a politician.

    EDIT: I take that last part back. It doesn't make her look like a statesman... although very much like a politician.



    http://www.showmenews.com/2006/Jan/20060129News008.asp
    The position the Dems are taking is, yes do the intelligence work but use the FISA courts to protect citizen's rights. There needs to be oversight.
  11. #91  
    Often the Dems use the polls, and Republicans ignore the polls. So where does that put us? Personally, I don't know what the term 'Representative' means anymore!
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    The position the Dems are taking is, yes do the intelligence work but use the FISA courts to protect citizen's rights. There needs to be oversight.
    Of course
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    I'll make sure I depend on a phone company for any future legal decisions needed.
    You can bet your anytime minutes they had some very informed lawyers look this over very hard before refusing.


    Quote Originally Posted by Advance The Man
    btw, the NSA exists whether there is a Repub or Dem in the White House.
    Um yea. Did I imply otherwise?
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    And Republicans ignore it.
    So where does that put us?
    Personally, I don't know what the term 'Representative' means anymore!
    The gov bases descisions on facts (at least we have to hope) and the public tends to base largely on emotion. Hopefully betweeen the two we're left with something tolerable.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You can bet your anytime minutes they had some very informed lawyers look this over very hard before refusing.



    Um yea. Did I imply otherwise?
    LOL
    Don't even F*** with my anytime minutes!!! Damn You!!
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    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    So Qwest refused the request by the the NSA because they were feeling grumpy that particular day?

    Every week we learn something new this admin is doing that keeps moving further and further away from our protected rights. And it has nothing to do with what party is doing it. Howard Dean could be doing this and it would be just as wrong.

    But, you don't seem to concerned that this was discussed in 1999 because it did not pertain to as many citizens?

    Was it OK in 1999 because the dems were in control and bad now because the repubs are in control?

    I think it was wrong then and wrong now. I think if the previous admin allowed it we should not point to the current admin as any worse.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    But, you don't seem to concerned that this was discussed in 1999 because it did not pertain to as many citizens?

    Was it OK in 1999 because the dems were in control and bad now because the repubs are in control?

    I think it was wrong then and wrong now. I think if the previous admin allowed it we should not point to the current admin as any worse.
    No it was worong then. I wrote heavily against echelon & green lantern.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by sxtg
    The gov bases descisions on facts (at least we have to hope) and the public tends to base largely on emotion. Hopefully betweeen the two were left with something tolerable.
    I the the WMD case proves that the government is very good at applying the "ladder of inference."
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    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    No it was worong then. I wrote heavily against echelon & green lantern.
    OK, just curious. Thanks for the clarification
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    You can bet your anytime minutes they had some very informed lawyers look this over very hard before refusing.
    And the other multiple companies didn't have lawyers check it before they agreed?



    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Um yea. Did I imply otherwise?
    Quote Originally Posted by previous daThomas
    And it has nothing to do with what party is doing it. Howard Dean could be doing this and it would be just as wrong.
    With this quote you imply that the Republican party is controlling what the NSA does, specifically Bush. The NSA runs the NSA, and within the legal boundaries. Go back and drink you koolaid. Go back to www.conspiraciesrus.com
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