Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567813 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 315
  1. #41  
    I did VOIP back then, so that statement holds no creditiblity. Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    No it did not affect domestic land line use, only " terrestrial-based data communications" or internet use and voip which was not much used then.
  2. #42  
    An attitude like yours, turn tale and run, bolsters the efforts of the terrorists out there who do not care whether you like them or not, whether you support them or not. You are a westerner and therefore are a prime target. The government's main function is protection of its citizens and you advocate the government abandon its primary function. Glad you are not running the government.

    Ben




    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Can't be stated enough;
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    Ben Franklin
  3. #43  
    Watergate is a lousey example of "government" access. Do a better job of picking your examples - something more relevent. You throw Watergate out and I can equally throw out Billy's cigar. They matter not about government, but personal and moral responsbility.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    I tend to think that in this day and age of pay-as-you-go cell phones and black market cell phones, laptops, etc, the only people affected by such actions are those of us who are on the grid and, mostly, obeying the law. In the same way that I believe new gun ownership regulations only affect those who care about regulations.

    Now, one might say, if I'm obeying the law, why do I have to worry. But for a lot of people its not a question of legal or illegal acts so much as embarassing acts. If I have a "youthful indiscretion" with a young lady not my wife, does the gov't have a right to get involved? If a young woman calls the free clinic, does she want those numbers to be in some database for the rest of her lifetime?

    In a country like ours where we mostly have a level of trust in the government, we can feel safe that such information is relatively private. But how sure are we that our gov't won't change? How sure are we that some day, after the slow creeping in of new laws and regulations, our employers won't have access to such a database? Isn't it better for such things to not exist at all?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    I did VOIP back then, so that statement holds no creditiblity. Ben
    The % of private citizens using voip then was miniscule, statement remains valid.
  5. #45  
    To infer our government is along the same lines as Hitler's/Nazi Germany's government is way over board. You are babbling and not making any sense.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    "The Hollerith was used to tabulate and alphabetize census data. Black says the Hollerith and its punch card data ("hole 3 signified homosexual ... hole 8 designated a Jew") was indispensable in rounding up prisoners, keeping the trains fully packed and on time, tallying the deaths, and organizing the entire war effort. Hitler's regime was fantastically, suicidally chaotic; could IBM have been the cause of its sole competence: mass-murdering civilians? "


    "The government should fear it's people. The people should never fear their government."
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    An attitude like yours, turn tale and run, bolsters the efforts of the terrorists out there who do not care whether you like them or not, whether you support them or not. You are a westerner and therefore are a prime target. The government's main function is protection of its citizens and you advocate the government abandon its primary function. Glad you are not running the government.

    Ben

    Way to drop in some talking point lines.

    When we give up all of our Liberties to fight "the Enemy" then the enemy has won. It's really just that simple.
  7. #47  
    Remove your pink glasses, bubba. They are causing you to go blind.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    This argument is truly silly.

    This president literally called up the supreme allied commander in the middle of the fight to find and destroy osama, and ordered him to move most of his troops over to iraq.

    The argument that he must have been doing something right in spying on Americans because we havent had another atack is utterly silly.

    We have only had one international terrorist attack here EVER!

    This means that your chances of getting killed in an international terrorist attack in every year other than 2001 were exactly none, null, nill, not any, zero percent chance.

    And this certainly does not mean that we can spy on whomever we like, completely ignore Osama, round up and detain and or torture anyone and everyone we like indefinietly without due process, and without any oversight whatsoever, and generally thumb our nose at the international community.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    To infer our government is along the same lines as Hitler's/Nazi Germany's government is way over board. You are babbling and not making any sense.

    Ben
    It's really not that far off. Every day this administration takes steps that line up with the rise to power of Germany's National Socialists. This data gathering on the entire population but one example.
  9. #49  
    This whole thing of disliking the President goes back to Gore's fanatical run for the presidency. Yelling his way to the top? What a jerk. No matter what happens, those of the far left will hate the president even when they are under tons of cement.

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by dutchtrumpet
    INDEED.

    So very foolish.

    It's fine to dislike the Pres...but let's be honest.

    If there was an attack that could have been prevented by actions such as these and there was no such program, the same that criticize him now would devour him then.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    The government's main function is protection of its citizens and you advocate the government abandon its primary function. Glad you are not running the government.

    Ben
    That may be the main function of a totalitarian form of government. But true government should exist to protect privileges while preserving a state of justice or equality for the majority.
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    Watergate is a lousey example of "government" access. Do a better job of picking your examples - something more relevent. You throw Watergate out and I can equally throw out Billy's cigar. They matter not about government, but personal and moral responsbility.

    Ben
    The point was that it's very tempting to use resources such as these (in the case of Watergate the FBI was complicit) for political gain - regardless of which party is in power. It becomes even more tempting if there is no transparency or accountability. And I haven't the faintest idea about how you would equate Watergate with Clinton's cigar?
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  12. #52  
    If you cannot equate the two, then there is a problem. They are both examples of abuse of power. Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by chillig35
    The point was that it's very tempting to use resources such as these (in the case of Watergate the FBI was complicit) for political gain - regardless of which party is in power. It becomes even more tempting if there is no transparency or accountability. And I haven't the faintest idea about how you would equate Watergate with Clinton's cigar?
  13. #53  
    I guess you forgot that we are at war. If we loose this war, then you loose your freedom. It is just that simple. No one has suggested that there is a justification for what you are trying to put forth as coming from the mouth and actions of the President. Bush is working at protecting us; Clinton did not do a thing of importance. Poor guy, you are confused. Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    That may be the main function of a totalitarian form of government. But true government should exist to protect privileges while preserving a state of justice or equality for the majority.
  14. #54  
    What's all the focus on the president? It's not about him, except to the extent that he continually makes exceptions to laws he signs as he sees fit. The topic is erosion of rights.

    And please point me to the declaration of war.
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by bheuss
    What's all the focus on the president? It's not about him, except to the extent that he continually makes exceptions to laws he signs as he sees fit. The topic is erosion of rights.

    And please point me to the declaration of war.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war

    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    If you cannot equate the two, then there is a problem. They are both examples of abuse of power. Ben
    I thought Clinton just abused a perfectly good cigar
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    I guess you forgot that we are at war. If we loose this war, then you loose your freedom. It is just that simple. No one has suggested that there is a justification for what you are trying to put forth as coming from the mouth and actions of the President. Bush is working at protecting us; Clinton did not do a thing of importance. Poor guy, you are confused. Ben
    We have to be most careful of those who claim to be defending our freedom while trampling on our liberties. As one of our founders once said ...
    "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety."
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiveSoundGuy
    Thanks. I know what a declaration of war is. I wanted pointed to the declaration of war that we are supposedly under. In fact our leaders have said we are not at war (and Congress never declared war).

    And this isn't about war. Sorry for the sidetrack. Unless we want to talk about the civil rights of detainees. . . .
    Brent
    T650 on Sprint's Wireless Wonder
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by daThomas
    Can't be stated enough;
    "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    Ben Franklin
    And Chilli don't forget who first quoted that quote...fair is fair

    Thread Crapper
    ~ August 16,2005 Poll-Master ~
    August 17, 2005 Century Club Member ~ August 29, 2005

    I have a fondness for intelligence.
    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by bclinger
    What rights have you lost? Has anyone knocked on your door? Anyone kicked your door in? Heck no. If you say your are going to xxxx the xxxxxxxxx, then you will proably have a problem, regardless of who is running the show. More whining and no loss of civil rights. No innocents in jail from it. Ben
    Ben, your lack of knowledge of law and rights makes me wonder about you.
Page 3 of 16 FirstFirst 1234567813 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions