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  1. #181  
    I will NOT turn off my HATE radio. I'm listening to some great bluegrass music right now. I guess if it wasn't for the great music and the comedy, I could turn it off. Until that format changes, I will continue listening to Air America.
  2.    #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    Take a look at the photo and tell me if the editor is for or against Bush.
  3. #183  
    Apparently that's too difficult for you...
  4.    #184  
    By HARRY R. WEBER
    AP Business Writer

    BellSouth denies it gave NSA call data


    MAY. 16 2:03 P.M. ET A day after denying that it provided bulk customer calling data to the National Security Agency, BellSouth Corp. said Tuesday it would never give any government agency such information without a subpoena or court order...
  5. #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by samkim
    When you choose sides, it's not journalism; it's politics.

    Take a look at the photo and tell me if the editor is for or against Bush.
    It's been my experience that most of the time people label journalism and/or the media, when something is published that they don't agree with. Funny how that works.
  6. #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    It's been my experience that most of the time people label journalism and/or the media, when something is published that they don't agree with. Funny how that works.
    I agree that often does happen. Like when I see someone post:
    "Cite from any legitimate news organization....and Fox News does not count!"
  7. #187  
    I'm far from being a fox news fan. But I have not known them to get the facts wrong more than any other agency. Speaking strictly news, not talk shows.
  8. cardio's Avatar
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    #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    By HARRY R. WEBER
    AP Business Writer

    BellSouth denies it gave NSA call data


    MAY. 16 2:03 P.M. ET A day after denying that it provided bulk customer calling data to the National Security Agency, BellSouth Corp. said Tuesday it would never give any government agency such information without a subpoena or court order...
    One more example of the media rushing a story without getting the facts.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  9. #189  
    The problem I see with allowing intrusions into private activities upon the grounds that "we are at war", is that the conduct once in place remains once the "war" is over. It is too easy for the gov/law enforcement to take short cuts. There was wisdom in the founding fathers in putting the checks and balances in place. The right to be free from unreasonable search and seizure, for example, has been substantially erroded over the past 50 years by a gradual process which has been justified by making exceptions to the basic principle. This is even more concerning when you add high tech into the mix. The lack of any judicial oversight of governmental intrusions into private lives is unwarranted, especially considering the ease with which the courts have granted warrants. What makes this country different from those that seek to harm us is the fact that we have freedoms which are individual to every citizen. If we do not maintain those freedoms, they will eventually be lost. The end does not justify the means.
    Legalbeagle
  10. #190  
    I think we look for quick and easy ways out. That's why the rights have been eroding away. You can bypass a lot of red tape if you say "national security." And people would rather give up certain freedoms rather than think of new or different ways to face and combat issues before them.
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    And people would rather give up certain freedoms rather than think of new or different ways to face and combat issues before them.
    What new or other ways do you have in mind?
  12. NRG
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    #192  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    One more example of the media rushing a story without getting the facts.
    You are going to believe a company which could be/is in a lawsuit, for just the act they deny?
    Last edited by NRG; 05/16/2006 at 06:31 PM.
  13. NRG
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    #193  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I agree that often does happen. Like when I see someone post:
    "Cite from any legitimate news organization....and Fox News does not count!"
    Hey that was me!!!!
  14. cardio's Avatar
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    #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    You are going to believe a company which could be/is in a lawsuit, for just the act they deny?
    I heard on the radio today that CNN (I think) stated Bell South was not on the list they had. Bell South says they did not provide data, why would I not believe them any more than Qwest?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by gaffa
    It's been my experience that most of the time people label journalism and/or the media, when something is published that they don't agree with. Funny how that works.
    So people complain when they don't like something? Keen insight there...

    Have you ever read a news article or watched a news program about something political or controversial where you can tell which side the journalist favors? How about when you just read the headline? I see it all the time on Fox News and in the New York Times. It goes both ways. Much less often in the Wall Street Journal. Headlines show bias more often than articles - probably because editors are forced to highlight one aspect of a story. It's sad to see journalists unable to hide their contempt for an individual as they're trying to report "news."


    Polls are especially vulnerable to bias, for several reasons. First, the original poll questions often are rarely published openly, so there's no check on the validity of the poll. Second, the opinion polls sometimes distort reality by forcing opinions into two polar categories.

    The Newsweek poll claims that 53% of Americans say the NSA “goes too far in invading people’s privacy.” Yeah? How many Americans are concerned about the privacy issue but wouldn't go as far as to say the NSA "goes too far"? Um, well, that's not a choice. Some of them may be part of the 6% undecided; most are likely included in the "goes too far" group. How many Americans don't care one way or the other? Newsweek says, 6%. Get real. Remember, this is a country where 40% of the people don't care enough to vote for President, and the pollsters want you to believe that 94% have a clear view on this issue.

    And then how about the other choice? Newsweek doesn't even reveal in the article the wording used to describe the other choice. Why not?? The smallest changes in wording can have a very large impact on the results. If you word one choice a little too extremely, that can push many people the other way. Journalists know that the credibility of a poll rests on not disclosing anything that might appear biased. Newsweek prints the exact wording for one choice, the NSA "goes too far," but paraphrases the other. WTF?

    And what exactly was the script used in the survey? How did they introduce the NSA topic? Again, no disclosure. Remember, this is a news article, supposedly trying to explain facts openly and without bias.

    And finally - here's the kicker - the article explains that this survey was combined with a Bush approval poll. Why would you do that??? If you ask about the NSA right after you ask about whether they approve of Bush, you'll get vastly different results from if you have a survey asking about the NSA only. Could they have asked about the NSA first? Not likely. Since they are tracking the Bush approval numbers over time, they'll want to keep those figures clean, and so they would probably ask that first.

    So - and I'm hypothesizing here - after they asked about Bush approval (and nearly 2/3 said they don't approve of Bush's performance), they asked whether the NSA went too far. (Did they mention Bush's name in the NSA question? Who knows?) Any surprise that Newsweek got very different numbers from the Washington Post?
  16. #196  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    You are going to believe a company which could be/is in a lawsuit, for just the act they deny?
    Yes. And you wouldn't?

    If it happened, there'll be a evidence of it, a paper trail and witnesses. Multiple employees at BellSouth would have to have had knowledge. USA Today's sources will have something to say. You know Congressional Hearings may be coming. Subpeonas too. BellSouth would do itself no good by denying it if it happened.

    And USA Today's reaction? Surely they had double-checked their sourcesbefore reporting. They're going to stand by their story right? Um, no. They "will continue to investigate and pursue the story aggressively."
  17. #197  
    The story is now being called into question if it really even happened.


    Verizon Denies NSA Sought Call Data
    BellSouth Also Refutes Report That Spy Agency Asked For Phone Records

    Communications Inc. denied Tuesday that it had received a request for customer phone records from the National Security Agency, and AT&T said it doesn't give consumer information without a court order, bringing into question key points of a USA Today story.

    "Contrary to the media reports, Verizon was not asked by NSA to provide, nor did Verizon provide, customer phone records," the New York-based phone company said in an e-mailed statement.

    A spokesman from AT&T said the company does not "allow wiretapping without a court order, nor has it otherwise given customer information to law enforcement authorities or government agencies without legal authorization."

    The statements came a day after BellSouth Corp. also said it had not provided the agency any customer call data.

    A story in USA Today last Thursday said Verizon, AT&T and BellSouth had complied with an NSA request for tens of millions of customer phone records after the 2001 terror attacks. The report sparked a national debate on federal surveillance tactics.

    FULL STORY: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1620814.shtml


    EDIT: Whoops...sorry....already posted So, this is just second source for the story and may contain additional information?
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by NRG
    Hey that was me!!!!
  19. #199  
    Interesting to see how the Europeans stack up to the US when it comes to surveillance:

    Some Europeans Say Surveillance Acceptable

    EU governments and the EU parliament this year approved legislation requiring telecommunications companies to retain phone data and Internet logs for a minimum of six months for possible use in terrorism and serious crime investigations.

    The Dutch secret service has gained vast powers. In 2004, the government passed measures that lowered the threshold for bugging and surveillance. A turning point in Dutch public attitudes came with the 2004 murder of filmmaker Theo van Gogh by a Muslim extremist.

    ---------------

    In Italy, a Justice Ministry report said the number of authorized wiretaps more than tripled from 32,000 in 2001 to 106,000 last year. Italian phone companies are obliged to keep phone records for at least five years and Internet records for at least one year - the longest of any of the EU's 25 member nations, according to Italy's privacy authority.

    FULL STORY: http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8HL5MMG1.html
    and

    EXCLUSIVE: M15 INFILTRATED BY AL-QAEDA

    She is looking for IT experts, technicians and language specialists to help monitor "traffic" via emails and phone calls between al-Qaeda terror cells across the world.

    MI5 is also offering 27,000 a year for "mobile surveillance officers" to follow targets who are part of "national security investigations".

    FULL STORY: http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/t...name_page.html
  20. #200  
    Bush reverses stand on spy program oversight



    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House, in an abrupt reversal, has agreed to let the full Senate and House of Representatives intelligence committees review President George W. Bush's domestic spying program, lawmakers said on Tuesday.

    ---------------

    The chairmen said separately that Bush had agreed to full committee oversight of his Terrorist Surveillance Program rather than the more limited briefings allowed up to now.

    FULL STORY: http://reuters.myway.com//article/20...TY-NSA-DC.html
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