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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I noticed that the article Blaze quoted was titled Illegal Immigrants and then he titled the thread Undocumented Immigrants. I said this first part before.....I always felt the turn of Undocumented Immigrant was a term to soften the reality of their illegal actions from crossing the border and living her outside of the system and against every immigration law on the books. If I stole a stereo system would I be thief or simply a Undocumented Stereo Owner with the legal rights to own the stereo if I got it home without getting caught? Would my actions be accountable to the law? If my stereo broke, would my new rights as an undocumented stereo owner entitle me to a brand new stereo?

    I am totally, 100%, for immigration, but through the due process for several reasons (most of which have already been stated in this or other threads dealing with Illegal Aliens). Here are some stats on Illegal Immigrants in the US:

    >> National Security, do I really need to go into details on this one? In fact for the this ONE reason alone, I feel law proposed by Senators Jon Kyl & John Cornyn is valid and would get my vote.

    >>Health Care. We pay for their care out of our taxes, driving further due to hospitals closing that canít afford fronting the money for illegal health care, high insurance rates, etc...



    >> Violent Crimes. Across the nation, it averages that 30% of all local and federal prisoners are illegal immigrants, many of which are in for violent crimes, i.e. murder, physical assault, rape, etc....



    >> Education.




    These are just a few areas of challenges we face with illegal immigrants.......PLEASE NOTE I am talking about ALL ILLEGAL Immigrants, not just from Mexico. But due our porous border, statistically a vast majority are from there. This is not racist, it is not discrimination. It is simply bringing those who want to be in our country and those who want to enjoy the opportunities our country provides accountable to our country and actually a legal part of supporting the systems and services that all Americans have an opportunity to take advantage of, I.E. health care, education, transportation, law enforcement, etc...
    Yeah ok, but... what about their feelings?
  2.    #22  
    lol, can somebody summarize what hobbes just posted?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    lol, can somebody summarize what hobbes just posted?
    Probably not in the lamen terms you would need
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    lol, can somebody summarize what hobbes just posted?
    Sorry Blaze I forgot to include a Blaze specific warning that this post will be longer than 2 paragraphs, include cites to back up the facts, and oh, ya, that it includes facts.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    lol, can somebody summarize what hobbes just posted?
    Immigrants cost a lot of money. Maybe $2 billion. Now what I wonder is how much money do their presence generate in economic growth, and in stopping population decline (thereby providing a tax base for future pensions).

    Surur
  6.    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Immigrants cost a lot of money. Maybe $2 billion. Now what I wonder is how much money do their presence generate in economic growth, and in stopping population decline (thereby providing a tax base for future pensions).
    If there is no economic benefit to an influx of cheap desporate laborors, I wonder why the president is so determined to keep the floodgates open? Maybe because he is a "compassionate conservative".
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Immigrants cost a lot of money. Maybe $2 billion. Now what I wonder is how much money do their presence generate in economic growth, and in stopping population decline (thereby providing a tax base for future pensions).

    Surur
    Just in the stats I listed above it is $31.4 Billion dollars, and that is only counting may of the costs from only 4 states.....a little more that $2 Billion
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    If there is no economic benefit to an influx of cheap desporate laborors, I wonder why the president is so determined to keep the floodgates open? Maybe because he is a "compassionate conservative".
    I think it is all about a voting base, and little to do with the welfare of the country. Which is why Dems & Reps both seem to cater to Illegals.
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Possibly less, because they would then need higher salaries to pay for all of those stuff. Cheap labour also fuels economic growth. Also, arnt all these taxes actually a drain on growth.

    Anyway, thats just a theoretical statement. Hasn't this aspect been settled already as part of the immigrations debate in USA? What do the pundits say?

    Surur
    I am not a proponent of underpaid labor. If they are here through legal channels then they deserve the same rights I have.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  10. cardio's Avatar
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    People who earn 2 dollars a day dont pay any of those things.

    EXACTLY! Now, if they followed the rules that are in place they would earn as at least the minimum wage.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I am not a proponent of underpaid labor. If they are here through legal channels then they deserve the same rights I have.
    Yes, but pragmatically, whats the results? Or has that aspect been ignored in the debate? Of course in Europe this is also an issue, but the government constantly preaches to us the benefits of immigration.

    Surur
  12.    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    EXACTLY! Now, if they followed the rules that are in place they would earn as at least the minimum wage.
    Persons who earn minimum wage get earned income credit.

    They dont pay us tax, we pay them tax.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I think it is all about a voting base, and little to do with the welfare of the country. Which is why Dems & Reps both seem to cater to Illegals.
    You're saying the president is defying his base to the tune of one of the lowest appoval ratings in history to get more votes for his next non existant political run?
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Persons who earn minimum wage get earned income credit.

    They dont pay us tax, we pay them tax.
    Only if they are here legally.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  15. #35  
    Quote:
    They are not being arrested for being an illegal immigrant.

    They are being arrested based on a new smuggling law, on the idea that they smuggled THEMSELVES....Quote:

    Well no s**t blaze....

    Doesn't the smuggling charge and being here ILLEGALLY go hand in hand?

    If the ILLEGAL ALIENS were not here in the US Illegally, there would be no smuggling charge against them, would there.

    I really don't give rats a$$ if the individual self smuggling ILLEGAL ALIEN slid under the fence, over the fence, through the fence or walked across where the fence was torn down by the individual self smuggler (ILLEAGAL ALIEN) or where there was no fence. Or even if the individual self smuggler paid someone to pack his or her a$$ into a load van for the trip north.

    It all comes down to the same thing, smuggled is smuggled and being here ILLEGALLY is ILLEGAL.

    If Sheriff Joes tent city jail with the tents, pink underwear, green balogna, moldy cheeze on stale moldy bread and few ounces of water per day is good enough for US citizen law breaker, it is certainly good enough for the individual self smuggler/ILLEGAL ALIEN. Oh hell, it's prolly better than what the individual self smuggler has available at home. IN MEXICO.

    Chuck
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Only if they are here legally.
    lol again cardio, you just have the hardest time following along... read all our posts again
  17.    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by chckhbrt
    Quote:
    They are not being arrested for being an illegal immigrant.

    They are being arrested based on a new smuggling law, on the idea that they smuggled THEMSELVES....Quote:

    Well no s**t blaze....

    Doesn't the smuggling charge and being here ILLEGALLY go hand in hand?

    If the ILLEGAL ALIENS were not here in the US Illegally, there would be no smuggling charge against them, would there.

    I really don't give rats a$$ if the individual self smuggling ILLEGAL ALIEN slid under the fence, over the fence, through the fence or walked across where the fence was torn down by the individual self smuggler (ILLEAGAL ALIEN) or where there was no fence. Or even if the individual self smuggler paid someone to pack his or her a$$ into a load van for the trip north.

    It all comes down to the same thing, smuggled is smuggled and being here ILLEGALLY is ILLEGAL.

    If Sheriff Joes tent city jail with the tents, pink underwear, green balogna, moldy cheeze on stale moldy bread and few ounces of water per day is good enough for US citizen law breaker, it is certainly good enough for the individual self smuggler/ILLEGAL ALIEN. Oh hell, it's prolly better than what the individual self smuggler has available at home. IN MEXICO.

    Chuck
    Eloquent and insightfull. Thank you.

    I wonder if 12 million will fit in the tent city.
  18. #38  
    Quote:
    Eloquent and insightfull. Thank you...Quote:

    Your welcome...

    Quote:
    I wonder if 12 million will fit in the tent city...Quote:

    Well man of genius, I do believe this particular issue is dealing with the individual self smuggling/ILLEGAL ALIEN within Sheriff Joes grasp in Maricopa County.

    I hope others around the Country get on the band wagon and follow Sheriff Joes example. Even if the exersize will only send the proverbial message....

    Chuck
  19. #39  
    The solution to all of America's problems ....

    Deport all undocumented aliens (and they're easy to spot - anyone who is not caucasian)

    Seal our borders to south by building a 700 mile steel and concrete barrier (machine gun towers are optional)

    This will immediately result in:

    1. Gas prices will go down to 50 cents a gallon
    2. We will win the "peace" in Iraq and our troops will be home by Xmas
    3. There will be no more terrorism on US soil ever again
    4. Our health care costs will go down because all private insurance companies will drop their premiums by 99%
    5. We will not have to pay auto insurance anymore because there no more uninsured motorists and hence no accidents
    6. We will all get high paying jobs - and yes - even get back all those "outsourced" jobs!
    7. Crime rate will drop to zero
    8. All our children will get free education all the way upto the graduate level
    9. There will be no more global warming (or at least here in the US)
    10. All gays and lesbians will go straight and there will be no more nonsense about their having "rights"
    Palm m505 -> Treo600 (GSM ATT) -> Treo650 (Cingular) -> BB8700g -> BB Pearl
    "The point of living and of being an optimist, is to be foolish enough to believe the best is yet to come."
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    #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    lol again cardio, you just have the hardest time following along... read all our posts again
    Reading comprehension and math were not your strong subjects were they.

    I will use round numbers to make it easier

    1 illegal alien (undocumented immigrant) earning $2 an hour for 10 hours allows $20 to go into the economy. Multiply that by 100 for 100 illegal aliens allows $2,000 to be put into the economy. Now if that same illegal alien applied for entry through appropriate channels they would make $5 an hour, now there is $50 for 10 hours work or $5,000 for 100 illegal aliens. Which is more $20 or $50? Once you can comprehend that we can go on and explain how drivers license applications, insurance and other things work.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
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