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  1. #21  
    "As mentioned by me before, there is no absolute morality. There is only our desires."

    Also know as Nihilism: "a philosophical position which argues that the world, and especially human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally believe all of the following: God does not exist, traditional morality is false, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no meaning, and no action is preferable to any other."

    This also is the most degrading and pathetic point of view possible. It is a good thing for Nihilists that God loves them and according to His ultimate truth, they exist.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Gee, why did you use the example of abortion? Anyway, can you say there is no absolute morality with any degree of truthfulness?
    I chose abortion because its a legal and moral issue where you will find people arguing very passionately on both sides, using ethical and moral issues. It demonstrates how there is no universal morality (even surrounding the so-called precious children).

    Surur
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by outofstyle
    "As mentioned by me before, there is no absolute morality. There is only our desires."

    Also know as Nihilism: "a philosophical position which argues that the world, and especially human existence, is without objective meaning, purpose, comprehensible truth, or essential value. Nihilists generally believe all of the following: God does not exist, traditional morality is false, and secular ethics are impossible; therefore, life has no meaning, and no action is preferable to any other."

    This also is the most degrading and pathetic point of view possible. It is a good thing for Nihilists that God loves them and according to His ultimate truth, they exist.
    Its also the most objectively truthful position. It makes people happy to lie to themselves and each other.

    Surur
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Its also the most objectively truthful position. It makes people happy to lie to themselves and each other.

    Surur
    Only you know if you are really happy Surur. In my expereience people who hold your point of few ( including close friends of mine ) are not being truthful with themselves when they say they are. I also have found that people tend to mature out of that sad state. I hope you do and I wish you well'

    PEACE
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Its also the most objectively truthful position. It makes people happy to lie to themselves and each other.

    Surur
    How could you say that a system that denies the existence of knowable truth is the most objectively truthful?
  6. #26  
    Gödel showed no-one can never know everything. A philosophy which admits that is already miles ahead.

    Surur
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Gödel showed no-one can never know everything. A philosophy which admits that is already miles ahead.

    Surur
    Isn't that quite different than a philosophy that says nobody can know anything?
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by TheLiveSoundGuy
    Bahrain huh?

    Well I don't know, but if you happen to be Michael J in disquise, I'm pretty sure that what you're getting at, is just plain wrong there too.
    Oh **** man thats gross!
  9.    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    For all laws to be the same throughout the world you would have to have one body of lawmakers to establish the law, and to enforce the law. This would be a One World Order. I think you are trying to equate morality to legality, which are not the same.
    Would that mean that a term like "International law" cannot exist?
    I think so.
  10.    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    I chose abortion because its a legal and moral issue where you will find people arguing very passionately on both sides, using ethical and moral issues. It demonstrates how there is no universal morality (even surrounding the so-called precious children).

    Surur
    Good example Surur

    how about Mercy killing? equally debatable.

    OH, BTW, I know that we will not agree in this thread, I just want to know what people think. So anyone joining here should agree thatwe will disagree.

    Just thought I'd get this outta the way.
  11. cardio's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    Would that mean that a term like "International law" cannot exist?
    I think so.
    How about nation/state sovereignity?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by surur
    Gödel showed no-one can never know everything. A philosophy which admits that is already miles ahead.

    Surur
    "Kurt Gödel demonstrated that within any given branch of mathematics, there would always be some propositions that couldn't be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms ... of that mathematical branch itself."

    Humm, and that proves what with regard to ethics morals and God? It is a good thing for you to go through this exercise and for you to follow it to it's ultimate conclusion. I would like to meet you in twenty years.
  13.    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    How about nation/state sovereignity?
    I think that can exist. Someone must be in charge, if you don't like thier ways, leave. No one is stopping you is there?
  14. #34  
    by child sexual organ mutilation... .you mean circumcision?
    = = =

    If you say there are no absolutes, that is an absolute statement itself .... the most you can say is there may not be any absolutes, but you are not sure (in fact not sure of anything- Opps... if you were absolutely not sure that you can know if there are absolutes- that also is an absolute statement). No- there has to be at least one absolute.
    = =
    How happy can I be if I am in a society that allows and encourages lying.... I will never know if I was being cheated... if anything said to me was real. The expectation that such falsehoosd is discouraged by society and punished by it allows us to go on with our lives.
    = =
    There may "be" a universal morality, objective truth.... we just tend to disagree about what it actually is.

    If God actually exists and he wears bowling shirts, but no person or religion in the world knows or believes that.... that doesn't preclude the fact that there "is" a bowling-shirt-wearing God out there.
    = = =
    The food in your refrigerator doesn't cease to exist when the door is closed, it's there- you just can't see it.
    = = =
    Countries (and cities and towns) presume upon themselves the right to make laws in their juristictions... the problem comes when you are out on the high seas... then agreements with counties, international bodies (the UN) presume upon themselves that they can put their laws out beyond their borders. So- you have Pirate radio stations operating out at sea, and platforms in the ocean (Sea-Land) trying to say they are out of the reach of other's laws. And "Rouge States" saying they can develop a bomb, or whathaveyou, without the interference of others. Technically- if they are a soverign nation that would be legally right.... but others can still make it difficult for you if you don't go along. And sometimes it has to be done anyway. We can debate our "interference" with Hitler, Saddam, or others.... but it is a judgement call political leaders have to make.

    But that's laws... as for right and wrong.... the US was formed under the assumption that there are certain inalienable rights.... that kings, countries, that nobody should be able to take away. They codified some of these (already-existing-universal) rights in the legal founding documents of the country.
    "Everybody Palm!"

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  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    Is it wrong to burn your dead father's body, crush up the bones, use it to make peppermint tea, then pass it around for all your friends to drink?
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    How about mutilating the genitals of your child with a sharp knife?
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1
    by child sexual organ mutilation... .you mean circumcision?
    That is one reason for mutilating the genitals of a child. Another would be to make sure your daughter is unable to enjoy sexual stimulation. Another would be to prove that your son is brave.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by outofstyle
    "Kurt Gödel demonstrated that within any given branch of mathematics, there would always be some propositions that couldn't be proven either true or false using the rules and axioms ... of that mathematical branch itself."

    Humm, and that proves what with regard to ethics morals and God? It is a good thing for you to go through this exercise and for you to follow it to it's ultimate conclusion. I would like to meet you in twenty years.
    How's personal outcome relevant? You obviously believe one should believe what is most beneficial, vs whats most accurate. Do you also believe in Santa Clause, because it makes you happy around Christmas?

    The universe is large and uncaring, and some day you will be dead. Thats the long and short of it.

    Surur
  17. cardio's Avatar
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by redbelt
    I think that can exist. Someone must be in charge, if you don't like thier ways, leave. No one is stopping you is there?
    Well, in line with what we were saying, where would on go if they chose to leave? After all, the law is the same around the world (international law as you asked) and as was the OP question.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1
    How happy can I be if I am in a society that allows and encourages lying.... I will never know if I was being cheated... if anything said to me was real. The expectation that such falsehoosd is discouraged by society and punished by it allows us to go on with our lives.
    Tell me, does this shirt make me look fat? Did you just fart? Have you ever *** of to pron?
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1
    There may "be" a universal morality, objective truth.... we just tend to disagree about what it actually is.

    If God actually exists and he wears bowling shirts, but no person or religion in the world knows or believes that.... that doesn't preclude the fact that there "is" a bowling-shirt-wearing God out there.
    = = =
    The food in your refrigerator doesn't cease to exist when the door is closed, it's there- you just can't see it....
    Nobody objects to the idea that there very well may be an underlying objective truth to the universe.

    It's just not something that lends itself well to legislation now is it?
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by duanedude1
    But that's laws... as for right and wrong.... the US was formed under the assumption that there are certain inalienable rights.... that kings, countries, that nobody should be able to take away. They codified some of these (already-existing-universal) rights in the legal founding documents of the country.
    Agreed, but those principles grant rights, not take them away.

    Furthermore, there is a difference between "universally agreed upon" principles.

    And principles handed down from god.
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