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  1. #41  
    Religion is evil. You gotta laugh however at how scared the mainstream religions are of any questioning. The Catholic church is huge and has been around for thousands of years yet they get their vestments all knotted because some guy wrote a few novels? If what they preach is so strong and true, they should have no problems at all with questions as their dogma should be able to stand on its own merits.

    Just a little while ago, ancient parchments were discovered that debunked the whole Judas as betrayer role, which was a huge part of what they preached (and murdered hundreds and thousands of my people, the Jews, as a result)

    I read all of Dan Browns books, aewsome. I guess in order of preference

    Da Vinci Code
    Angels and Demons
    Deception Point
    Digital Fortress
  2.    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by naftalim
    Religion is evil. You gotta laugh however at how scared the mainstream religions are of any questioning. The Catholic church is huge and has been around for thousands of years yet they get their vestments all knotted because some guy wrote a few novels? If what they preach is so strong and true, they should have no problems at all with questions as their dogma should be able to stand on its own merits.

    Just a little while ago, ancient parchments were discovered that debunked the whole Judas as betrayer role, which was a huge part of what they preached (and murdered hundreds and thousands of my people, the Jews, as a result)

    I read all of Dan Browns books, aewsome. I guess in order of preference

    Da Vinci Code
    Angels and Demons
    Deception Point
    Digital Fortress
    Oh man here we go, prepare to have the thread hijacked lol
  3. cardio's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Oh man here we go, prepare to have the thread hijacked lol
    I don't know about being hijacked. Both the Da Vinci Code and the Judas papers are along the same lines. I would just suggest that one do a little research on the topic before commenting on why thousands of people were murdered.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Both the Da Vinci Code and the Judas papers are along the same lines. I would just suggest that one do a little research on the topic before commenting on why thousands of people were murdered.
    What? The Da Vinci Code is a 21st century work of fiction.

    The Gospel of Judas Iscariot is a 2 thousand year old manuscript detailing the life and times of a man who actually knew Jesus of Nazareth.

    What "lines" are these that you are talking about?

    With all due respect, if anyone on this board should do more research before posting cardio, it is you.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    How many followers do fallwell and Pat Robertson Have?
    Ah, I see. You're comparing a man who protests at the site of funerals for soldiers with a man who is urging Christians to use the American democratic process to change laws that we feel to be unjust.

    Just so I'm clear. I know how much you hate to be misrepresented.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by naftalim
    Just a little while ago, ancient parchments were discovered that debunked the whole Judas as betrayer role, which was a huge part of what they preached (and murdered hundreds and thousands of my people, the Jews, as a result)
    Debunk? How so?
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Ah, I see. You're comparing a man who protests at the site of funerals for soldiers with a man who is urging Christians to use the American democratic process to change laws that we feel to be unjust.

    Just so I'm clear. I know how much you hate to be misrepresented.
    Lol, I am? Wow your crazy. At some point it is not even worth correcting you when putting words in the mouths of others.

    I just read my posts again, they're clear.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Lol, I am? Wow your crazy.
    Now who is disparaging whom? I'll expect an apology.

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    At some point it is not even worth correcting you when putting words in the mouths of others.
    How did I "put words in your mouth"? Did I not say that I just wanted to be clear? If I'm not then you clear it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    I just read my posts again, they're clear.
    Clear enough to have multiple possible meanings, right?
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Lol, I am? Wow your crazy. At some point it is not even worth correcting you when putting words in the mouths of others.

    I just read my posts again, they're clear.
    Okay, let me rephrase:

    You're comparing [followers of] a man who protests at the site of funerals for soldiers with [followers of] a man who is urging Christians to use the American democratic process to change laws that we feel to be unjust.

    Better?
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Hey, Christianity cannot "head" anywhere, God does not change his mind. Right is right, wrong is wrong forever. And the pope is Divinely Inspired never to be wrong.
    Um...I'm late in joining the thread but the infallability of the pope does NOT mean the he is "never to be wrong". That is a huge misrepresentation or a half-understanding. Not sure which you meant.

    But when a Pope speaks infalliably from the Chair of Peter, then he speaks as the head of church and in the apostalistic succession. If Pope Benedict is walking around and say's, "The Dallas Cowboys are the best NFL team", then that is NOT infalliable just because the pope said it. (by the way, the Cowboys are the best team)
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Um...I'm late in joining the thread but the infallability of the pope does NOT mean the he is "never to be wrong". That is a huge misrepresentation or a half-understanding. Not sure which you meant.

    But when a Pope speaks infalliably from the Chair of Peter, then he speaks as the head of church and in the apostalistic succession. If Pope Benedict is walking around and say's, "The Dallas Cowboys are the best NFL team", then that is NOT infalliable just because the pope said it. (by the way, the Cowboys are the best team)
    I'm sure he was being ironic..

    As for the infalliably of the pope, JPII's mea culpa proves that even the pope/church can have it wrong...
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  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by RicoM
    Um...I'm late in joining the thread but the infallability of the pope does NOT mean the he is "never to be wrong". That is a huge misrepresentation or a half-understanding. Not sure which you meant.

    But when a Pope speaks infalliably from the Chair of Peter, then he speaks as the head of church and in the apostalistic succession. If Pope Benedict is walking around and say's, "The Dallas Cowboys are the best NFL team", then that is NOT infalliable just because the pope said it. (by the way, the Cowboys are the best team)
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikepedia
    In Roman Catholic theology, Papal infallibility is the dogma that the Pope is preserved from error when he solemnly promulgates, or declares, to the Church a decision on faith or morals.
    Yeah, I was being ironic. I tried to use the tongue sticking out and the eyeroll smileys, but I do think papal infalabitly means that god preserves the pope from making an error.
  13. cardio's Avatar
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    What? The Da Vinci Code is a 21st century work of fiction.

    The Gospel of Judas Iscariot is a 2 thousand year old manuscript detailing the life and times of a man who actually knew Jesus of Nazareth.

    What "lines" are these that you are talking about?

    With all due respect, if anyone on this board should do more research before posting cardio, it is you.
    Really now, do you know when the papers were written? Come on, should not be too hard for you to google and get the date. Then, when you get the date, find the supporting documents that verify the authenticity of the information in the papers.

    The papers have been dated, date range has been verified by several secular agencies. (edit:http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/l...n/14282890.htm
    Carbon-14 decays at a steady rate after death. By measuring how much of the isotope was left in tiny fragments of the Judas papers, scientists could estimate when they were converted from reeds into papyrus paper.

    The result: somewhere between A.D. 220 and 340.) so much for 2000 years old.



    Easy to throw out attempts to discredit anyone who disagrees with your opinon (and pout when you feel anyone questions your comments), but more difficult to back your claims.
    Last edited by cardio; 05/10/2006 at 11:34 AM.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Cardinal urges legal action against Da Vinci Code
    Sun May 7, 2006 10:13 AM ET

    By Philip Pullella

    VATICAN CITY (Reuters) [snip] ..because both offend Christ and the Church he founded.
    I think the courts will find that Christ will have to a seperate action on his own behalf.

    Thread Crapper
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    I often black out when doing something really stupid. I supose that's why I'm such a danger to my self
    .



  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Really now, do you know when the papers were written? Come on, should not be too hard for you to google and get the date. Then, when you get the date, find the supporting documents that verify the authenticity of the information in the papers.

    The papers have been dated, date range has been verified by several secular agencies. (edit:http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/l...n/14282890.htm
    Carbon-14 decays at a steady rate after death. By measuring how much of the isotope was left in tiny fragments of the Judas papers, scientists could estimate when they were converted from reeds into papyrus paper.

    The result: somewhere between A.D. 220 and 340.) so much for 2000 years old.

    Easy to throw out attempts to discredit anyone who disagrees with your opinon (and pout when you feel anyone questions your comments), but more difficult to back your claims.
    Lol, cardio you're still hanging in there, thats good.

    Manuscripts of that time were copies of copies of copies, there is no original Bible autographed by god and jesus. The manuscript in question is thought to be a transcript of an earlier work from within a few decades of the Gospel of John.

    In any event, I think i was clear, I inteded to address your silly comparison between the DaVinci Code Novel, and the Gospel of Judas.
  16. cardio's Avatar
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Lol, cardio you're still hanging in there, thats good.

    Manuscripts of that time were copies of copies of copies, there is no original Bible autographed by god and jesus. The manuscript in question is thought to be a transcript of an earlier work from within a few decades of the Gospel of John.

    In any event, I think i was clear, I inteded to address your silly comparison between the DaVinci Code Novel, and the Gospel of Judas.
    Copies of copies of copies normally use the same style and language as the original. This style of writing is from somewhere around 250-400 AD. The writing style is in the form Gnositcs would use in the time frame of 300 AD, probably a form of writing associated with the Cainite Gnosticism sect, which believed that Jesus did not appear in human form or if appeared in human form desired to return to heaven ASAP. A 2nd century theologain (Irenaeus) referred to a Gospel of Judas and called it a mythological teaching, Irenaeus makes reference to the Gospel of Judas involving Judas and Cain, Korah and the Sodomites. A 2nd theologian Epiphanus (4th century AD) refers to distinctly seperate Gospel of Judas, and this seems to be along the same lines as the one in circulation today (since neither mention Cain, Korah or the sodomites).

    I have no doubt the document is real, just the dates the origianl document was written and the validity of the information it contains since it does not line up with historical documentation from both biblical as well as non-biblical sources.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I have no doubt the document is real, just the dates the origianl document was written and the validity of the information it contains since it does not line up with historical documentation from both biblical as well as non-biblical sources.
    That's my point when I questions someone else here who said the Gospel of Judas "debunked" common notions about the betrayal. Just because its an original document doesn't mean its either contemporary or truthful.
  18. #58  
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...121611,00.html

    Judas did not betray Jesus, lost gospel claims
    By Jenny Booth

    An ancient manuscript written in Egypt in 300AD purports to show that Judas Iscariot was not the betrayer who sold Jesus to his enemies for 30 pieces of silver, as the bible says.

    The apocryphal account of the last days of Jesus's life portrays Judas as a loyal disciple, who followed Jesus's orders in handing him over to the authorities and thus allowed him to fulfil the biblical prophecies of saving mankind.

    The fragile 31-page document, which has had a chequered history since it was discovered near Beni Masar in Egypt in the 1970s, was put on show for the first time this afternoon at the National Geographic Society in Washington, along with an English translation.
  19. #59  
    It seems so many people are ready to believe the Gospel of Judas. But why would this single document be more credible than four Gospels and several other epistles of which we have many early manuscripts in many different translations and thousands of pieces of manuscripts?
  20.    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Copies of copies of copies normally use the same style and language as the original. This style of writing is from somewhere around 250-400 AD. The writing style is in the form Gnositcs would use in the time frame of 300 AD, probably a form of writing associated with the Cainite Gnosticism sect, which believed that Jesus did not appear in human form or if appeared in human form desired to return to heaven ASAP. A 2nd century theologain (Irenaeus) referred to a Gospel of Judas and called it a mythological teaching, Irenaeus makes reference to the Gospel of Judas involving Judas and Cain, Korah and the Sodomites. A 2nd theologian Epiphanus (4th century AD) refers to distinctly seperate Gospel of Judas, and this seems to be along the same lines as the one in circulation today (since neither mention Cain, Korah or the sodomites).

    I have no doubt the document is real, just the dates the origianl document was written and the validity of the information it contains since it does not line up with historical documentation from both biblical as well as non-biblical sources.
    Well, it almost looked like the words in the top paragraph were your own again, but it looks like you copied it from one of the Christian scholars that have been attempting to discredit the manuscript.

    Whether you find the Historians(95-100AD) more credible on this, or the church, the point, again, was the silly comparison to the DaVinci Code novel.
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