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  1. cardio's Avatar
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Richard Clarke said the suggestion he proposed in response to everything in that list, to Clinton and G W Bush, was to simultaneously strike all known Al Quiada camps.

    However, he also said that the incoming Bush administration felt that the outgoing Clinton administration had become "obsessed" with terrorism. And he said that during his time at the White House, Clinton had approved and signed every military suggestiont dealing with terrorism that was put in front of him.

    Clarke blamed Clinton for having too poor a relationship with the Joint Chiefs who were often at odds with him, and gave him little or no military options.
    Did you read what you typed before you hit "Submit Reply"?

    "Clarke said the suggestion he proposed in response to everything in that list, to Clinton and G W Bush, was to simultaneously strike all known Al Quiada camps"

    "Clinton had approved and signed every military suggestiont dealing with terrorism that was put in front of him."

    How many times did Clinton strike all known AQ camps?
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Did you read what you typed before you hit "Submit Reply"?

    "Clarke said the suggestion he proposed in response to everything in that list, to Clinton and G W Bush, was to simultaneously strike all known Al Quiada camps"

    "Clinton had approved and signed every military suggestiont dealing with terrorism that was put in front of him."

    How many times did Clinton strike all known AQ camps?
    Several.
  3. cardio's Avatar
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    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Several.
    Care to list the "response to everything in that list, to Clinton" that "Clinton had approved and signed every military suggestiont dealing with terrorism that was put in front of him."

    From your post, you should be able to tell us where these camps were that Clinton struck after each item on the list. I would like to know which branch of the military was involved and what the outcome was. I must have been on leave during all those campaigns.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    So you don't think you have a responsibility to your fellow man to save your fellow man's life by doing nothing more than opening your mouth? Wow. That's heartless at best, evil at worst.
    look elsewhere -- it wasn't me who wrote your constitution, your bill of rights.

    The people you should blame are named Jefferson and Madison

    The right to remain silent is a core value of your democracy -- inconvienient or not

    (Libertie, Egalitie, Fraternitie ...)
    Last edited by BARYE; 05/04/2006 at 07:29 PM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Care to list the "response to everything in that list, to Clinton" that "Clinton had approved and signed every military suggestiont dealing with terrorism that was put in front of him."

    From your post, you should be able to tell us where these camps were that Clinton struck after each item on the list. I would like to know which branch of the military was involved and what the outcome was. I must have been on leave during all those campaigns.
    No, you are misrepresenting what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    However, he also said that the incoming Bush administration felt that the outgoing Clinton administration had become "obsessed" with terrorism. And he said that during his time at the White House, Clinton had approved and signed every military suggestiont dealing with terrorism that was put in front of him.
    These are the words of George Bush's own Terrorism Zhar as quoted from his own book about exactly what happend in the White House in the days, weeks and months, leading up to the 9/11 attacks.

    Nothing in what I have posted claimed that President Clinton made an individual strike after every incident in Hobbes list, i think everyone but you knows that would be silly.

    And sorry that you dont seem to know that President Clinton made several strikes against terrorist targets during his term, but cardio, you are not the most informed contributor to the board.
  6. cardio's Avatar
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    #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    No, you are misrepresenting what I said.These are the words of George Bush's own Terrorism Zhar as quoted from his own book about exactly what happend in the White House in the days, weeks and months, leading up to the 9/11 attacks.

    Nothing in what I have posted claimed that President Clinton made an individual strike after every incident in Hobbes list, i think everyone but you knows that would be silly.

    And sorry that you dont seem to know that President Clinton made several strikes against terrorist targets during his term, but cardio, you are not the most informed contributor to the board.
    Dude, don't you ever get tired of trying to continue to build on your stories. Go back and read post 39 in this thread. That is the post where you made the claim that Clinton did just that. I called you on it then and you changed the subject.

    Now you use your famous misrepresenting what I said, even though I used your exact quote in a cut and paste.

    Told you once I have stopped any attempt at a debate with you, facts mean nothing to you if they go against your opinon. I just like reading your replies when someone points out the inconsitent answers in your posts.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    The right to remain silent is a core value of your democracy -- inconvienient of not
    You are seriously perverting the right against self incrimination. I'm getting sick thinking you believe the constitution prevents criminals from doing good...
    And the fact that you are defending someone who took a role in killing thousands of people is disgusting.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    You are seriously perverting the right against self incrimination. I'm getting sick thinking you believe the constitution prevents criminals from doing good...
    And the fact that you are defending someone who took a role in killing thousands of people is disgusting.
    Upholding the constitutional rights of even the most morally reprehensible, "disgusting" citizens is among the first and dearist principles on which this nation was founded.

    But on the question if it is heartless, certainly. Evil, well that's a topic for another thread.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    Dude, don't you ever get tired of trying to continue to build on your stories. Go back and read post 39 in this thread. That is the post where you made the claim that Clinton did just that. I called you on it then and you changed the subject.

    Now you use your famous misrepresenting what I said, even though I used your exact quote in a cut and paste.

    Told you once I have stopped any attempt at a debate with you, facts mean nothing to you if they go against your opinon. I just like reading your replies when someone points out the inconsitent answers in your posts.
    Cardio, you are confused, and your lack of knowledge of world events is hampering your ability to follow along with the board.
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze post 39
    Richard Clarke said the suggestion he proposed in response to everything in that list, to Clinton and G W Bush, was to simultaneously strike all known Al Quiada camps.

    However, he also said that the incoming Bush administration felt that the outgoing Clinton administration had become "obsessed" with terrorism. And he said that during his time at the White House, Clinton had approved and signed every military suggestiont dealing with terrorism that was put in front of him.

    Clarke blamed Clinton for having too poor a relationship with the Joint Chiefs who were often at odds with him, and gave him little or no military options.
    Here is my entire post 39.

    That president Bush's terrorism zhar said in his book (which i have invited you to read) that he made a proposal to presidents Clinton and Bush, that in response to the events outlined in Hobbes list, that we launch cruise missile attacks simultaneously against ALL KNOWN Al Quiada targets, un announced, all at the same time.

    In the case of Bill Clinton, Clarke said that partially because of the presidents poor relationship with the military, that the joint chiefs continually gave him little or no military options, and that the president signed off on every anti terrorism plan that was put in front of him.

    Sorry if it comes across badly Cardio... but the reason you are having a difficult time understanding is you seem to be truly, truly uninformed. Give that book a read or a listen, it's worth your while, i have it on mp3 if you like.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Upholding the constitutional rights of even the most morally reprehensible, "disgusting" citizens is among the first and dearist principles on which this nation was founded.
    And he had every right to be silent on the charges against him. That does not excuse him from his actions, though.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Cardio, you are confused, and your lack of knowledge of world events is hampering your ability to follow along with the board. Here is my entire post 39.

    That president Bush's terrorism zhar said in his book ....
    There is no such word as zhar, yet you keep using it in assorted posts. You are confused, and your lack of knowledge of the English language is hampering your ability to follow along with the board. Are you referring to Jedi Master Zhar Lestin perhaps?
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clairegrrl
    Are you referring to Jedi Master Zhar Lestin perhaps?
    You mean THE Jedi Zhar Lestin who was a Twi'lek Jedi Master and member of the Jedi Council during the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War? The one that trained both Revan and Malak for a time whilst he was on Coruscant and saw Revan as his most promising pupil, certain he would one day be a great champion of the Jedi Order? I love that guy!

    Did you know that Zhar once again became the teacher to Revan, after the former dark lord had been 'reprogrammed' by the Jedi Council. After the events on Taris and watching the planet be destroyed by Malak, Bastila Shan made the suggestion to head to Dantooine, where she discussed the events to the Jedi Council. Vandar Tokare tells the group that Revan - who now believes he is someone else - will be trained in the ways of the Force.

    Zhar praises him, once again, for his quick study - though this is 'retraining' - and reveals that he had once been teacher to Revan and Malak.

    Master Zhar was killed on Katarr by Darth Nihilus.
    BTW....I am not that much of a geek....the wonders of Google. Clair I am either impressed or worried that you knew about them, unless you are another fellow Google Master such as I am! Here is the link with a summary of maybe all the Jedi Masters none to the us from the Star Wars Universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_Star_Wars_Jedi_masters
  13.    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Upholding the constitutional rights of even the most morally reprehensible, "disgusting" citizens is among the first and dearist principles on which this nation was founded.

    But on the question if it is heartless, certainly. Evil, well that's a topic for another thread.
    your answer was more reasonable and patient than any I could have written ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  14.    #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    You are seriously perverting the right against self incrimination. I'm getting sick thinking you believe the constitution prevents criminals from doing good...
    And the fact that you are defending someone who took a role in killing thousands of people is disgusting.
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    And he had every right to be silent on the charges against him. That does not excuse him from his actions, though.
    those two statements are so completely out of sync that I wonder if you have any real understanding of one the very core civil liberties guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.

    What did you learn of the constitution, civil liberties, and the Bill of Rights in school -- did you attend during the bush years when those kinds of courses were de-emphasized in order to get kids to pass standardized tests ??

    On the news tonight Rumsfeld was grilled by a former CIA agent about Rumy's Iraq lies during a Q&A.

    One of the reasons it was the lead story on many of the newscasts was that it was so stunning that an american was allowed to directly confront someone in the upper reaches of this administration. The questioner was about to be thrown out -- as other protesters had already been -- when Rumy "allowed" the questioner to continue.

    That americans now are allowed -- given permission -- to speak is chilling.

    (Comparable to the idea of being compelled to speak.)

    You seem to have little appreciation for why civil liberties are important.

    By protecting the least amongst us, by safeguarding even the most unsympathetic, we protect and safeguard ourselves.

    Maybe you’re innocent of the crime for which you are accused -- perhaps you trust that the police are honest and the lie detector test will be administered fairly. Maybe you want to answer their questions. That is your right.

    But maybe you don't trust the police to be fair -- perhaps you think they will take what you tell them and twist it in a way that harms you. Do you want to be the situation that often applied even 40 years ago where police felt empowered to beat (torture) confessions out of prisoners??

    That lesson has clearly been forgotten by this administration.

    The texans who have controlled this country the last 6 years have generally had particular point of view when it comes to free speech and civil liberty. Boasting about it in public, and then subverting it in private.

    Whether its was pursuing mass illegal wiretapping, physically abusing internees, or restricting entry and access to presidential events to republicans with tickets -- they have subverted in a completely self righteous way democratic values that have been a point of pride and strength of this nation -- and a source of admiration for much of the rest of the world...
    Last edited by BARYE; 05/05/2006 at 03:20 AM.
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  15.    #55  
    clairegrrl...
    clairegrrl, I hope you don't mind that I used you as a personal reference ...
    755P Sprint SERO (upgraded from unlocked GSM 650 on T-Mobile)
  16. #56  
    This guy is getting what he deserves, his comments alone ignite the flames of terror in others. Life in MAX is his future. He will be protected by his isolation. He is entering not paradise but hell.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    You mean THE Jedi Zhar Lestin who was a Twi'lek Jedi Master and member of the Jedi Council during the Mandalorian Wars and the Jedi Civil War? The one that trained both Revan and Malak for a time whilst he was on Coruscant and saw Revan as his most promising pupil, certain he would one day be a great champion of the Jedi Order? I love that guy!

    Did you know that Zhar once again became the teacher to Revan, after the former dark lord had been 'reprogrammed' by the Jedi Council. After the events on Taris and watching the planet be destroyed by Malak, Bastila Shan made the suggestion to head to Dantooine, where she discussed the events to the Jedi Council. Vandar Tokare tells the group that Revan - who now believes he is someone else - will be trained in the ways of the Force.

    Zhar praises him, once again, for his quick study - though this is 'retraining' - and reveals that he had once been teacher to Revan and Malak.

    Master Zhar was killed on Katarr by Darth Nihilus.
    BTW....I am not that much of a geek....the wonders of Google. Clair I am either impressed or worried that you knew about them, unless you are another fellow Google Master such as I am! Here is the link with a summary of maybe all the Jedi Masters none to the us from the Star Wars Universe. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minor_Star_Wars_Jedi_masters
    Yeah...That's the one!
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    clairegrrl, I hope you don't mind that I used you as a personal reference ...
    But that breath,,,,yuck
    Well behaved women rarely make history
  19. cardio's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Cardio, you are confused, and your lack of knowledge of world events is hampering your ability to follow along with the board.Here is my entire post 39.

    That president Bush's terrorism zhar said in his book (which i have invited you to read) that he made a proposal to presidents Clinton and Bush, that in response to the events outlined in Hobbes list, that we launch cruise missile attacks simultaneously against ALL KNOWN Al Quiada targets, un announced, all at the same time.

    In the case of Bill Clinton, Clarke said that partially because of the presidents poor relationship with the military, that the joint chiefs continually gave him little or no military options, and that the president signed off on every anti terrorism plan that was put in front of him.

    Sorry if it comes across badly Cardio... but the reason you are having a difficult time understanding is you seem to be truly, truly uninformed. Give that book a read or a listen, it's worth your while, i have it on mp3 if you like.
    I am not sure how your read or think that when you type that Richard Clarke proposed to both Clinton and Bush that ....... strike all known AQ targets, then 3 lines later write that Clinton signed and approved every military suggetion dealing with terrorism. When I read those statements in the same response it says Clarke said strike the targets, Clinton approved and signed military orders to strike the targets. Well, if that is the case someone is lying or badly misinformed.

    Maybe you need to go back and read your book, or have someone read it to you and take better notes. You have stated several times now that Clarke suggested and Clinton approved strikes against every known target after every terror attack that was listed in an earlier post. That is a false statement. Sorry to be so blunt, but sometimes that is what it takes.
    "If It Weren't For The United States Military"
    "There Would Be NO United States of America"
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by BARYE
    those two statements are so completely out of sync that I wonder if you have any real understanding of one the very core civil liberties guaranteed by the Bill of Rights.
    I assure you I'm not a moron, regardless of how many times you say it.
    This whole thing is based on your assertion that the right against self incrimination allows a someone to know of an impending distaster and do nothing to stop it. That right is not applicable in this case. For instance, if you know of an impending disaster, but did nothing to cause it (you overheard it) then you would not be incriminating yourself by alerting the authorities, and therefore the gov't can punish that inaction as a crime as no one would say that is protected by any clause of the Constitution. Now, if the person was to take part in said action they are suddenly not committing a crime by not telling anyone? Surely you cannot eliminate one crime (not informing the authorities of an impending slaughter) by committing another (taking part in the slaughter).
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