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  1.    #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    The Refugee and Asylum policies IS part of the Canadain immigration process!!!!!
    It really isn't, I assure you, I have helped my wife's sister in law with her Canadian Immigration. Furthermore, I think I have made it clear in my posts, exactly what I was advocating.
  2.    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    Without demanding that you post evidence and assuming you are lying until you do
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I don't know how else to read:
    Um, its simple hobbes, i was saying that WITHOUT demanding evidence and assuming that you are lying until you do ... (much like some here do) ... I would just encourage you to seek out objective evidence that the Canadian Immigration policy is in fact less secure as a whole than the American policy.

    Again you literally cut off my sentence half way through.
  3.    #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    You're not making sense so I'll drop it.

    What I want to know, Blaze, is exactly what part of US immigration policy you take offence to. Tell me the specific policy, please.
    There are many problems, but the crux of my biggest issue with our policy is that we do not have one policy with the same rules for everyone.

    Why should we have one policy for a German or Croatian man, and a different policy for a Mexican or a Filipino.
  4.    #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Yesterday's rally was about granting amnesty for Mexican illegal immigrants, or at least shutting down the call for stronger border enforcement. It was spun by the rally organizers (and enabled by the media) as some sort of "celebration of immigrants" holiday.

    I've got several thoughts on this subject, so here's a few...

    - I'm all for immigration reform if that's needed. So, if there's racial bias, economic bias, etc. which allows certain people to flow through the immigration process quickly while others have to jump through hoops and wait forever, let's look at that. I think that's a good idea and maybe that will be a positive thing that will come out of this. But that's not what I've heard *anyone* calling for here. I've heard the Mexican illegal immigrants ask for amnesty, others to ask for guest worker visas, etc.

    - Follow the money. This is about cheap labor. This is the blue collar equivalent to the white collar H1-B visa atrocity that we suffer with. For the high-tech industry, the industry claims that "there aren't enough skilled workers" so we need more H1-B visas. For the blue-collar jobs they claim that "Americans aren't willing to do these jobs." In both cases, it's all about more money in the CEO and investors' pockets and stagnating or even decreasing the worker bee's wages and rights. These workers (H1-B and day laborers) don't have the same rights as citizens. They can't unionize, they'll put up with poor working conditions, etc. They're the modern form of indentured servants. Mind you, they do this *willingly* because as bad as the wages and working conditions may be from an American's perspective, for them it's better than what they can make back home, so they put up with it. And that's exactly how big business likes it. Poor pay and poor working conditions and people who don't complain about it.

    Those of you who are all for improving the lives of these Mexican illegal immigrants: Look closely at what the president and the liberal democrats are proposing. They both serve the interests of the corporations. They aren't proposing true amnesty (as they proudly proclaim). Fines, requiring learning English, etc. Yes, some will make it through those hoops (which seem easy to us Americans). Many others won't. Remember, that we're talking about low-paid (often under the table, paid below minimum wage) workers. These fines will be very significant for them. And back taxes? You think they've got a savings account building up?

    This whole thing is about smoke and mirrors and keeping the status quo. The president and the Democrats want to craft something that sounds like it's somehow diminishing the security risk of a steady flow of unknowns crossing the border while also being "sensitive" to these hard working people. In reality, none of them want to grant true amnesty because that would mean making them legal citizens who enjoy the full rights of a citizen. See notes above about what the corporations want. They don't want full-right noisy problematic citizens working for them, they want people with little rights who won't complain, will get paid below minimum wage, and will say thank you for it all.

    But just so I can offend the rest of you...I also believe that since many of these people (day laborers and H1-B visa holders) don't necessarily want to be true American citizens anyway, but just are here to get more money, we shouldn't necessarily feel too bad about making a distinction about those who want to be Americans and those who don't. Here's a radical idea: Do you *really* want to be an American? Do you love this country and what it stands for (or claims to, anyway)? Welcome, here's your citizenship. Just here for the extra money that you plan on sending home or saving up and moving back home and living like a king there? Here's the door.

    Being a bit more realistic...I started out talking about how I think an honest look at whether the current immigration procedure is fair is a good idea. If I was making public policy, my other big priority would be to ensure that we had an accurate method of determining one's US citizenship (perhaps driver's licenses are complicated enough to fake these days that this would fit the bill). We then make all employers validate their employees' citizenship using this method. We then crack down hard on any and all employers who knowingly hire illegal immigrants. I'd also wipe out the H1-B visa program (or, at least drastically reduce the numbers and put some measurable enforcement behind it to ensure that companies are only using H1-B's when no American citizen can be found, rather than doing it just for the money).
    Wow, I just read this again, and I agree with about 60% of what you said.

    I'm a software engineer, so some of my best friends came to America on a H1B, and my wife entered the United States on an H1B nurse visa, so i am close to the issue, and I have to say, you come across as a bit bitter when complaining about H1B, and I aslo know that most of the IT H1B holders are from India, and they endure a lot of racism and animosity. In my view it casts doubts over the rest of what you have to say, which for the most part was more than worthwile.

    Also, i would bet you would get more comments on your post if you broke this up a bit. It's pretty long with lots of different ideas in one post.
  5. #85  
    I deleted this post.....
  6.    #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I deleted this post.....
    lol, hobbes comeonn man, im falling asleep here
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    There are many problems, but the crux of my biggest issue with our policy is that we do not have one policy with the same rules for everyone.

    Why should we have one policy for a German or Croatian man, and a different policy for a Mexican or a Filipino.
    You know, I've been reading through the Immigration and Nationality Act and I can't see what you're talking about. The majority of legal immigrants were people with family members or family sponsorship. I even see a diversity amendment that bumps up the numbers for nations that have historically low immigration to the US. But I don't see anything that looks inherently racist.
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    You know, I've been reading through the Immigration and Nationality Act and I can't see what you're talking about. The majority of legal immigrants were people with family members or family sponsorship. I even see a diversity amendment that bumps up the numbers for nations that have historically low immigration to the US. But I don't see anything that looks inherently racist.
    I will give you a hand then. U.S. Department of State VISA BULLETIN FOR OCTOBER 2005

    Notice that there are different dates for the "browner" columns, and another column for everybody else. Unfortunately, my brother in law is in one of the "browner" columns.
  9.    #89  
    The U.S. immigration laws provide a yearly quota for all immigrant visa categories, generally creating a waiting list for certain relatives of family-based and employment-based visas. The state department controls these visas and publishes a monthly "visa bulletin" indicating the progress of the waiting lists based on an assigned "priority date" and country of nationality.

    But this part cracks me up.

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Department Of State
    *NOTE: For October, 2A numbers EXEMPT from per-country limit are available to applicants from all countries with priority dates earlier than 01OCT98. 2A numbers SUBJECT to per-country limit are available to applicants chargeable to all countries EXCEPT MEXICO with priority dates beginning 01OCT98 and earlier than 01NOV01. (All 2A numbers provided for MEXICO are exempt from the per-country limit; there are no 2A numbers for MEXICO subject to per-country limit.)
    Now compare that to the Canadian policy. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pdf/kits/guides/EG7.pdf
    Last edited by theBlaze74; 05/02/2006 at 10:18 PM.
  10.    #90  
    ok then, i gotta work tomorrow, nice talking i guess, gnight
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    ok then, i gotta work tomorrow, nice talking i guess, gnight
    I guess Perry isn't the only one who talks to himself.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  12. #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    I will give you a hand then. U.S. Department of State VISA BULLETIN FOR OCTOBER 2005

    Notice that there are different dates for the "browner" columns, and another column for everybody else. Unfortunately, my brother in law is in one of the "browner" columns.
    What do you mean by "browner" columns? Also, I have to tell you, I still don't see any racism here.
  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    The U.S. immigration laws provide a yearly quota for all immigrant visa categories, generally creating a waiting list for certain relatives of family-based and employment-based visas. The state department controls these visas and publishes a monthly "visa bulletin" indicating the progress of the waiting lists based on an assigned "priority date" and country of nationality.

    But this part cracks me up.
    Does this sound racist to you?
  14.    #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    What do you mean by "browner" columns? Also, I have to tell you, I still don't see any racism here.
    I will paste it in to point it out better to you. Your question was what i find so objectionable about our immigration policy. I responded with ...
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze
    There are many problems, but the crux of my biggest issue with our policy is that we do not have one policy with the same rules for everyone.

    Why should we have one policy for a German or Croatian man, and a different policy for a Mexican or a Filipino.
    This is just one example, From the U.S. State Department Website,

    The chart shows dates for how long immigrants have to wait to legally join their families in the United States. The four columns on the left are for China, India, Mexico, and the Philippines. The column on the left is for everybody else.

    And "racist" is your word. I will choose my own words thank you.
    Last edited by theBlaze74; 05/03/2006 at 12:22 AM.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    The chart shows dates for how long immigrants have to wait to legally join their families in the United States. The four columns on the left are for China, India, Mexico, and the Philippines. The column on the left is for everybody else.
    But doesn't "everyone else" include countries like those in Southeast Asia (except the Philippines) and Africa?

    And "racist" is your word. I will choose my own words thank you.
    Yes, you already chose your word... and it was "racism".

    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Personally, I feel that America has an immigration policy rooted in racism that needs to be reformed, and that, refugees aside, we should accept all immigrants by the same set of rules without regard to their race or nationality.
    emphasis added
  16.    #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    But doesn't "everyone else" include countries like those in Southeast Asia (except the Philippines) and Africa?
    What? How does that address the problem I outlined in our policy? You are pointing out now that we allow in africans? lol

    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    Yes, you already chose your words... and it was "racism".
    Um, you think rooted in racsim was a comment about the waiting list and not about the chineese exclusion act?

    Now you are just flatout misrepresenting me.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Now you are just flatout misrepresenting me.
    What did you mean by "browner column"?
  18. #98  
    Maybe you're just misrepresenting yourself.
    Trust me, I'm a producer.
  19.    #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    What did you mean by "browner column"?
    That the persons living in the countries we exclude from entering seem to be BROWNER than us.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    That the persons living in the countries we exclude from entering seem to be BROWNER than us.
    And that's different than implying racism how?
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