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  1.    #1  
    So much for the horrible economy...

    Six years later, the Dow is back
    Propelled by the economy, the Dow is nearing its all-time high of 11,723 from 2000.
    By Ron Scherer | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

    NEW YORK Without much fanfare, the Dow Jones Industrial Average is closing in on its all-time high, set at the beginning of 2000 before Americans became disenchanted with stocks and turned to real estate.

    Despite soaring oil prices, the Dow, watched as a barometer of the economy and Main Street, has regained more than 4,000 points that slipped away after the dotcom bust and the 2001 recession. Now, the average is closer than it's ever been to its Jan. 14, 2000, high of 11,723 - a number that brings back memories of taxi drivers talking about their stock portfolios and a book predicting a 36,000 level for the Dow.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0501/p01s01-usec.html
    Last edited by geatches; 05/01/2006 at 04:21 PM.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  2. #2  
    Yeah, a great economy. For investors and CEOs. High tech jobs outsourced and "in-sourced", China taking over more and more of the manufacturing. Thank you Clinton and Bush (and so many of the Democrats and Republicans that have enabled and continue to enable this).
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  3. #3  
    Scott,
    More people than you realize are investors. Virtually all pensions have vast sums in the equity markets. There will always be anecdotal tales of pain at all points of the business cycle. People have a tendency to wear rosy glasses when looking in the rear view mirror, as you are doing now. But on the whole, the world economy (yes, including China and India, they have people too, you know) is in good shape and the U.S. is strong as well. The fact that oil prices are at all time nominal highs should make us all the more thankful for the market reforms made in the last 50 years that have allowed us to grow through all of this.
  4.    #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    Yeah, a great economy. For investors and CEOs. High tech jobs outsourced and "in-sourced", China taking over more and more of the manufacturing. Thank you Clinton and Bush (and so many of the Democrats and Republicans that have enabled and continue to enable this).
    How are you doing Scooter? Financially, I mean.
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  5. #5  
    I'd feel more optimistic if I had an idea of what Americans are going to be uniquely suited for in the future. What are the "jobs of the future"? What should be new college kids be majoring in? IMO, there's no job that's a safe bet long-term.

    And, what's worse, the politicians play games by pretending to be concerned about the problem and then proposing dumb solutions. For example, one of my local politicians has commented that he's concerned about the fact that the US is "falling behind" in technology (based somewhat on the fact that fewer American kids are going down that path in college), so one of his/their bright ideas is to throw a little money at education in some way or another. No, the problem is that people like me are telling kids (and they're figuring it out on their own - they're not as dumb as we think) that the future in Computer Science and other high-tech fields is questionable at best. Companies are outsourcing those jobs and salaries are getting stagnant. If my daughter was college-aged, I would probably discourage her from going down that path, as much as I love it. In fact, I myself have diverted into a more business-oriented field (at least for now), because the market for developers in my field is poor compared to 5 years ago.

    If you want kids to go down a career path in technology, the easiest way to encourage that is to make it clear that the US government values high tech workers and that those jobs are safe, secure jobs for the near-to-mid future and that it's a lucrative field to go into. Human nature is that people will go down a career path if they see a payoff there (yes, some will go down that path simply because they personally love it, even if the pay stinks).

    In short, in a capitalistic society, the average person thinks capitalistically (?) as well, not just the corporations. So, there's little surprise that when companies show little loyalty to their workers that workers will show little loyalty to their companies and as corporations outsource/insource jobs in certain fields, the next generation will abandon those options.

    In the end, what will this mean to America long-term when we lack high-tech skilled workers and when we no longer manufacture *anything* here? If we've somehow moved onto "better" things, leaving manufacturing to China and high-tech to India, why is it that their economies are booming? And, again, just what are these "better" skills/jobs/services that our country is excelling in exactly?
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  6.    #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I'd feel more optimistic if I had an idea of what Americans are going to be uniquely suited for in the future. What are the "jobs of the future"? What should be new college kids be majoring in? IMO, there's no job that's a safe bet long-term.

    And, what's worse, the politicians play games by pretending to be concerned about the problem and then proposing dumb solutions. For example, one of my local politicians has commented that he's concerned about the fact that the US is "falling behind" in technology (based somewhat on the fact that fewer American kids are going down that path in college), so one of his/their bright ideas is to throw a little money at education in some way or another. No, the problem is that people like me are telling kids (and they're figuring it out on their own - they're not as dumb as we think) that the future in Computer Science and other high-tech fields is questionable at best. Companies are outsourcing those jobs and salaries are getting stagnant. If my daughter was college-aged, I would probably discourage her from going down that path, as much as I love it. In fact, I myself have diverted into a more business-oriented field (at least for now), because the market for developers in my field is poor compared to 5 years ago.

    If you want kids to go down a career path in technology, the easiest way to encourage that is to make it clear that the US government values high tech workers and that those jobs are safe, secure jobs for the near-to-mid future and that it's a lucrative field to go into. Human nature is that people will go down a career path if they see a payoff there (yes, some will go down that path simply because they personally love it, even if the pay stinks).

    In short, in a capitalistic society, the average person thinks capitalistically (?) as well, not just the corporations. So, there's little surprise that when companies show little loyalty to their workers that workers will show little loyalty to their companies and as corporations outsource/insource jobs in certain fields, the next generation will abandon those options.

    In the end, what will this mean to America long-term when we lack high-tech skilled workers and when we no longer manufacture *anything* here? If we've somehow moved onto "better" things, leaving manufacturing to China and high-tech to India, why is it that their economies are booming? And, again, just what are these "better" skills/jobs/services that our country is excelling in exactly?
    I appreciate what you say and agree with most of it. My question for you is - Deal or No Deal? No, my question is how are you doing financially?
    Freedom of some speech in the US, through someone in the UK.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I'd feel more optimistic if I had an idea of what Americans are going to be uniquely suited for in the future. What are the "jobs of the future"? What should be new college kids be majoring in? IMO, there's no job that's a safe bet long-term.
    Has there ever been a time when there were safe long-term bets. If we knew where everything was headed, there would already be a crowed there. That is part of the wonder of life. Will things go bust for the U.S.? Perhaps. Have people been crying wolf for centuries now? Absolutely.
  8. #8  
    KRamsauer, yes, I think there was such a time. People worked for the same company for years, often retiring there. There were real benefits to that as people had lots of subject matter expertise, loyalty was rewarded and morale was high. And in terms of fields of study, Computer Science once seemed like a pretty safe long-term field.

    There's a huge difference between trading goods between two countries where one country has a larger supply of a particular natural resource (whether it be oil or bananas) and treating people as similar commodities to be traded. But at least if you're trading with another country with similar worker rights, environmental standards, etc. you're working with a more level playing field. That's not what we've got going on now.

    geatches, my financial situation is a bit worse than it was a few years ago, but we're scraping by. My wife left her job in the IT field to go back to school for Nursing and she's on a waiting list to get into a 2.5 year program. I don't necessarily look at that as a bad thing, as she always wondered if she should have gone down that path to begin with, but the shift in IT helped give her a push. For me, I'm not doing what I'd prefer to do (programming), because the work is harder to come by, despite the continual and annoying message from politicians and corporations that there's a shortage of tech workers. I changed from being an employee to being a contractor, partly out of necessity. I get paid more but have no job security, have to buy my own benefits, etc.

    I have to run now, so I'm being brief. I can comment more later.
    Now THIS is the future of smartphones.
  9. #9  
    Now adjust for COLA (cost of living adjustment) and see where we are....what are we averaging 4 % a year ? I know it was 4.5% for 2005 cause I just did payroll adjustments. In 1990 dollars that's equal to a DOW of about 9,000
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    KRamsauer, yes, I think there was such a time. People worked for the same company for years, often retiring there. There were real benefits to that as people had lots of subject matter expertise, loyalty was rewarded and morale was high. And in terms of fields of study, Computer Science once seemed like a pretty safe long-term field.
    You mean like all those people at GM? The fact of the matter is, setups like those are extreme rarities and in the end resulted in a a true fiascos. Ask detroit or tokyo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    There's a huge difference between trading goods between two countries where one country has a larger supply of a particular natural resource (whether it be oil or bananas) and treating people as similar commodities to be traded. But at least if you're trading with another country with similar worker rights, environmental standards, etc. you're working with a more level playing field. That's not what we've got going on now.
    It has nothing to do with the size of a natural resource. It has everything to do with the relative value placed on various goods (and labor).
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    I'd feel more optimistic if I had an idea of what Americans are going to be uniquely suited for in the future. What are the "jobs of the future"? What should be new college kids be majoring in? IMO, there's no job that's a safe bet long-term.
    It will come to the point where the entire American economy will be advertising based. The entire world will build stuff and come to the US to hire our advertising and sales expertise cause we are still the the unchallenged champs at bullsh*tting"

    I don't wanna steal too much from Richard Jeni but his HBO special on the topic is absolutely hilarious. He figures the way America can improve its image is to hire ad guys to come up with a slogan.

    "America, 20 million illegal aliens can't be wrong".

    http://www.tampatrib.com/baylifenews/MGBXTFROFBE.html
  12. NRG
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by geatches
    So much for the horrible economy...

    Six years later, the Dow is back
    Propelled by the economy, the Dow is nearing its all-time high of 11,723 from 2000.
    By Ron Scherer | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

    NEW YORK Without much fanfare, the Dow Jones Industrial Average is closing in on its all-time high, set at the beginning of 2000 before Americans became disenchanted with stocks and turned to real estate.

    Despite soaring oil prices, the Dow, watched as a barometer of the economy and Main Street, has regained more than 4,000 points that slipped away after the dotcom bust and the 2001 recession. Now, the average is closer than it's ever been to its Jan. 14, 2000, high of 11,723 - a number that brings back memories of taxi drivers talking about their stock portfolios and a book predicting a 36,000 level for the Dow.

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0501/p01s01-usec.html
    So we are almost back to where we were when bush took office? Great!

    I think this article has it right, money from real estate is coming back to the stock market cause they are unsure WTF real estate is going to do when the feds are going to be forced raises rates again.
  13. #14  
    Hehehe, this is because it's only safe for a democrat when things are going well. Otherwise they can't handle it.
  14. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by KRamsauer
    Hehehe, this is because it's only safe for a democrat when things are going well. Otherwise they can't handle it.
    right and of course there is the well know economics 4 year (or until a democrat gets elected, depending on how long it takes to elect a democrat) rule. Which says there is a variable delay after any given presidency before the economic policies take effect.
  15. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    ...In short, in a capitalistic society, the average person thinks capitalistically (?) as well, not just the corporations. So, there's little surprise that when companies show little loyalty to their workers that workers will show little loyalty to their companies and as corporations outsource/insource jobs in certain fields, the next generation will abandon those options....
    The absence of loyalty is not a "capitalisitic" notion. Likewise, capitalism does not mean one only thinks about him/her-self.

    The progression you are describing is what occurs when people begin to think only about what is best for themselves, and only themselves. This type thinking can occur in every economy. It's called greed.

    Greed causes people to kill the proverbial "goose that lays the golden eggs."


    One of the things that makes our Consitution extraordinary is the built-in assumption that we are all inherently equal and should all have life, liberty, and happiness. Unfortunately, we have shrunk away from that ideal, and behave as though only the ___________-est (strong, pretty, fast, smart...) are entitled to such.
  16. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott R
    IMO, there's no job that's a safe bet long-term.
    Learn to sell.

    It pays okay too!
    Last edited by KRamsauer; 05/05/2006 at 10:30 AM.
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  17. #18  
    capitalistically
    ok, i had to look it up to make sure it wasn't a Bushism, but ok, you win, it is actually a word

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