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  1.    #1  
    There is a lot of buzz going around about the latest gas price spike. Here are just a few of the things happening with this in the last couple days:
    • Bush has called for an investigation for price gouging. Source.
    • Hillary Clinton stated today that we are one crisis away (hurricane, terrorist attack, etc...) from $100 a barrel.....which on face value of this single statement I would agree with. Source.
    • A Senate committee is starting another investigation to see if oil companies are paying all their taxes. Source.


    Not many of them seem to focus on several of the real culprits of the situation:
    • Supply and Demand. US is still number one, but countries like China and India are using a lot more oil than in their history with projections to multiply that several times over over the next few years.
    • US dependence on foreign oil: A claim I hear a lot from both Dems and Reps. But like today I heard Durbin (Dem Senator) said in an interview that he is basically against any extra drilling in the US to help address this.
    • Taxes: I think this is a major one. Heard on MSNBC today that Hillary and Reid have sponsored several huge tax hikes on each gallon of gas (I am sure Reps have done the same but they did not list any). They said, depending on the geo area, tax is currently up to around $0.55 a gallon for the consumer.
    • Oil Company Profits: I heard on another report on either FOX or CNN today that the oil companies are reporting record high profits. But that the average profit margin per gallon is 9 cents. I want to do some research on that some more as I think it is really higher than that, but the fact is I just don't know.


    What solutions do you think we should impose now to help curb the current trend and to help protect it from happening again? (and don't just say elect another Pres, that is no answer that is going to help now)

    ......Approve domestic drilling?

    ......Increase domestic refineries?

    ......Use alternative fuels now, some of which could be implements relatively easily compared to others.

    ......Tax penalty for over profits with oil companies with that money going into increasing our domestic oil structure or research into alternative fuel sources.

    .....Pass laws that require auto makers to go at least 25 miles to the gallon.

    ....Decrease the gas taxes to consumers?

    .....Invade and colonize Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, etc... and take over all of their oil wells for ourselves?
    Last edited by HobbesIsReal; 04/27/2006 at 02:06 PM.
  2. #2  
    If you want to make a quick impact, subsidize (tax credits) the purchase of high efficiency vehicles. If I've got a 5-10 year old SUV gas sucking pig, I can't afford to move to a temptng Prius, or even a good conventional gas saver, when I manage to save $100 per month on gas but get buried with a $400-600 car payment.
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  3. #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    .....Invade and colonize Saudi Arabia, Iran, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, etc... and take over all of their oil wells for ourselves?
    Promise you dont work for **** Cheney?

    There is only one main factor (for which we have any degree of immediate control) contributing to the cost of Gasoline at the pumps now, and that is the speed and volume at which we can refine and distribute gasoline.

    It is a long expensive process to build refineries, and more importantly, it is in the interest of those refineries NOT to expand production.

    In any event perhaps this is best for our environment anyway.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Promise you dont work for **** Cheney?

    There is only one main factor (for which we have any degree of immediate control) contributing to the cost of Gasoline at the pumps now, and that is the speed and volume at which we can refine and distribute gasoline.

    It is a long expensive process to build refineries, and more importantly, it is in the interest of those refineries NOT to expand production.

    In any event perhaps this is best for our environment anyway.
    Sometimes you amaze me, Blaze. Normally I figure you to make some extreme sarcastic comment, but once in a while, you actually make a good point.

    We could run a giant spigot from downtown Middle East to the shores of the US, wouldn't matter. Refineries are at 100% right now.

    Although I don't agree with your comment of being in their best interest not to expand. The more we refine, the more we'll buy, since I doubt the supply will exceed the demand. At least not without some serious re-thinking from us.
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  5.    #5  
    Blaze...good post. I agree with nearly everything in there. And I also agree that the whether is is reasonable or not that the oil companies have resisted expanding additional oil refineries.

    I heard about 6 months ago, that it has been something link 20 years since the last refinery oppened...I am simply remember, so I could be off, but it has been a LONG time.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by HobbesIsReal
    I heard about 6 months ago, that it has been something link 20 years since the last refinery oppened...I am simply remember, so I could be off, but it has been a LONG time.
    Thats correct. But I think its environmental reasons..."Not in my backyard..," etc.

    If someone knows otherwise, feel free.
    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Insertion
    Thats correct. But I think its environmental reasons..."Not in my backyard..," etc.

    If someone knows otherwise, feel free.
    Insertion, your saying Exxon Mobile would love to increase production (and thereby reduce demand, oil prices, and thier own profits), but they have already tried every township and district in the western hemisphere, but the nasty old environmentalists have stood in the way?

    Every time?
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Insertion, your saying Exxon Mobile would love to increase production (and thereby reduce demand, oil prices, and thier own profits), but they have already tried every township and district in the western hemisphere, but the nasty old environmentalists have stood in the way?

    Every time?
    Well, now you're getting extreme again. Of course they haven't tried every township, that would be impossible.

    I did come up with this:

    http://www.citizen.org/print_article.cfm?ID=11829
    Myth 1: Oil refineries are not being built in the U.S. because environmental regulations, particularly the Clean Air Act, are so bureaucratic and burdensome that refiners cannot get permits.

    Fact: Environmental regulations are not preventing new refineries from being built in the U.S. From 1975 to 2000, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) received only one permit request for a new refinery. And in March, EPA approved Arizona Clean Fuels’ application for an air permit for a proposed refinery in Arizona. In addition, oil companies are regularly applying for – and receiving – permits to modify and expand their existing refineries.
    But what does that mean? Are regulations so stiff, that it's near impossible to get anything done, so why spend the money trying? Or are they purposely withholding?

    I don't have the answer, that's why I asked if anyone did.
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  9. #9  
    On the flip side:

    http://www.forbes.com/energy/2005/09...efineries.html
    But don't count on oil companies building more refineries across the country to spread the risk from hurricanes and other natural disasters. It's been 29 years since a new refinery was built. And like any other business, an oil company wants to operate with the lowest possible costs.

    "Building a new refinery costs $5 billion and would take five years," says Oppenheimer oil analyst Fadel Gheit. He also estimates increased transportation costs at a dollar a barrel--another reason to keep refineries close to where crude oil is pulled from the ground.

    Moreover, environmental regulations and inevitable lawsuits from groups opposing refineries popping up in their backyard mean oil companies risk sinking billions into breaking ground, only to never see a facility get up and running.

    "An oil company would need to hire about 15 lawyers just to argue it won't break any environmental regulations," Gheit says.
    "And Arizona's regulations, if anything, are less prohibitive than most states," says Ian Calkins, a spokesman for Arizona Clean Fuels. "No one would even think about building in California, where regulations are even tougher."

    In addition to common business challenges like financing and securing customer contracts, the group has spent the better part of the last ten years navigating the National Environmental Policy Act, which means showing why a refinery won't negatively affect everything from flowers and shrubs to endangered species of animals.
    confused??

    MaxiMunK.com The Forum That Asks, "Are You Not Entertained?"

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  10. #10  
    It does seem to make sense, from the oil companies perpective, that keeping supply tight thereby driving up costs would be better for business. And, as Munk suggested, given the fact that building new refineries would cost money in the near term (being the term most execs work within) they have little incentive to do so. Far be it from me to suggest an oil company think beyond quarterly earnings and do what's best for the country.

    Crap, this gas price thing is making me sound like a liberal.
  11.    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by theBlaze74
    Promise you dont work for **** Cheney?
    Who do you think he calls to get all of his great ideas! The Hobbes Hotline!
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by hoovs
    ...Far be it from me to suggest an oil company think beyond quarterly earnings and do what's best for the country.

    Crap, this gas price thing is making me sound like a liberal.
    The dilemma is in determining what is "best" for the country. In one context, it is good for U.S. corporations to do well financially because of the likelihood of employement opportunities resulting, as well as the benefit to individual share-holders. And, down the line, all those entities are tax-payers who help to finance the oerations of the Executive, Legislative and Judicial branches of government.

    On the other hand, high prices for fuel put an immediate burden on many of those same individuals. And, the high fuel prices impact costs of all other goods, which again directly impacts the individual. If the retailers, though, eat the rising fuel costs, they are not as profitable, share-holders are not rewarded, and jobs get cut, tax revenue is lower, and .....

    Of course, not only are individuals taxed on their income, but they are taxed again at the pump. As much as 20% of the per gallon cost is comprised of federal, state, county and municipal taxes on fuel.

    That is the one part of the equation that is under the immediate and direct influence of government officials. And it is the one area where reduction does not impact taxpayers (individuals or businesses) negatively.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by shopharim
    Of course, not only are individuals taxed on their income, but they are taxed again at the pump. As much as 20% of the per gallon cost is comprised of federal, state, county and municipal taxes on fuel.
    I am not sure how accurate this is, but is a pretty interesting article about how gas prices work.

    http://money.howstuffworks.com/gas-price.htm
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  14. #14  
    First, don't elect an administration comprised of more oil millionaires than any in US history.

    After that, you may want to consider getting out of your fawking car you single occupant vehicle morons! "Oh, I can't get to work without driving. Whah! Whah!". BS, carpool or take the bus ONE LOUSY DAY A WEEK!

    It's interesting that the words carpool or public transportation don't come out of this administrations mouths but removing enviromental restrictions and taxes (which pay for the roads) is on the front burner.

    Oh, and here's a little double solution for those pinched at the pump and by their waist bands; bike commute.
  15. cardio's Avatar
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    #15  
    I guess we could do what our senators do.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...602307_pf.html

    Both dems and repubs drive (gas guzzlers) a block to protest high gas prices.
    Oh, DaT, you do realize that there are lots of dems with lots of stock in oil also right?
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  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by cardio
    I guess we could do what our senators do.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...602307_pf.html

    Both dems and repubs drive (gas guzzlers) a block to protest high gas prices.
    Oh, DaT, you do realize that there are lots of dems with lots of stock in oil also right?
    Keep playing the "us/them" "Repub/Dems" game while the corporations suck the middle-working class dry in this country.

    That's what they like.
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    #17  
    After that, you may want to consider getting out of your fawking car you single occupant vehicle morons! "Oh, I can't get to work without driving. Whah! Whah!". BS, carpool or take the bus ONE LOUSY DAY A WEEK!

    I work 15 minutes away from home. I must take the parkway there. I dont live near any other people I work with. Therefore according to you I am a moron. You never cease to amaze me.

    Anyway, I think there should be a law stating every new car produced has to get at least 35 mpg. My honda civic get 40 mpg, so I know it can be done. If we have to sacrifice alittle engine strength, then so be it. Start raising the gas guzzler tax on cars that gets less than 35 mpg. Trucks with commercial plates not included.

    Require the Oil companies to spend atleast 25 percent of their profits on substitute fuel technologies. If they dont want to, take back their tax breaks.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    I work 15 minutes away from home. I must take the parkway there. I dont live near any other people I work with. Therefore according to you I am a moron. You never cease to amaze me.
    I find it difficult to believe you are incapable of getting to work using public transportation or a van-pool. After that, you could ride a bike. It's not a difficult puzzle to solve for those who are not morons. Fact is, most Americans will rationalize their a$$e$ off to avoid giving up their car for one lousy day a week.
  19. TomUps's Avatar
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    #19  
    I find it difficult to believe you are incapable of getting to work using public transportation or a van-pool. After that, you could ride a bike. It's not a difficult puzzle to solve for those who are not morons.
    Heres the problem with your theory...

    1. I must get on the parkway to get to my office, therefore I will not be riding a bike.

    2. There is no public transportation available to get me anywhere close to my office.

    3. There is no van-pool available to bring me any where close to my office.


    Therefore you plan wouldnt work for me so I guess Im a moron.
  20. #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by TomUps
    Heres the problem with your theory...

    1. I must get on the parkway to get to my office, therefore I will not be riding a bike.

    2. There is no public transportation available to get me anywhere close to my office.

    3. There is no van-pool available to bring me any where close to my office.


    Therefore you plan wouldnt work for me so I guess Im a moron.
    Give two addresses and I'll give you a solution.
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